F the labyrinth

No matter how many characters i level.

No matter how many easy lab famers i play.

I will never enjoy this trash system.

"

Xavathos wrote:

It's unfortunate that it's impossible to stand for anything anymore without being called either a troll or a white knight. Both terms are clearly a conception of the internetz. We respresent opposing sides of a long-standing discussion, that is literally all there is to it. Neither of us "innocent" and neither of us right or wrong.

With that said, I oppose TD only in his ideas of what the Lab represents and his attitude of late. I don't disrespect or even dislike the man. I remember a time where we had interesting exchanges of ideas regarding the Lab and I even agreed to some of his points. (which is no longer relevant since the changes made to the Lab and trials in 3.0)

I really have no interest in this continued hostility, which is why I stopped posting for a long time in threads like these. I wish he would see this, so that this back and forth throwing of mud may come to an end before GGG steps in and does it for us.

I thought that you were arguing that your statement

"

Xavathos wrote:

A steady stream of a handful of the same vocal minority, sure. Most of which don't even play the game at all, only visit forums to spew toxicity.

was factual. If that wasn't the case then I guess I misunderstood.

Listen Xavathos, I don't know why you're upset with me. So I'll apologize here for everything that I can think of.

Sorry that your statement above about us spewing toxicity and your statement conflating stash tabs with lab caused me to surmise that you were trolling or weren't sober. They really didn't make sense to me and I know that you're an intelligent fellow and it just seemed very out of character for typical Xavathos posts. I really wasn't trying to offend.

I'm sorry if you felt like I was picking on your false statement above about most of us not even playing the game. If you had just incorrectly formed the sentence and didn't say what you meant then I assumed that you would have just corrected the misunderstanding. I was not trying to pick on you. I felt that I was simply trying to defend the good people here that are simply expressing their opinion that labyrinth is bad content. They are not spewing toxicity, from my point of view. My point of view is that it is people coming here to belittle our opinions on the disliked labyrinth that is coming here to spew toxicity.

I'm sorry that I didn't take you up on your kind offer for a carry through labyrinth. I seriously considered it but I've never done anything like that and I just ended up going through uber labyrinth on my own. I've had to take my wife's characters through that loathsome content as well as my own characters. It is a horrible blight on PoE and besmirches and insults GGG's good name.

I'm sorry that you felt like I didn't respect your opinion sufficiently that you like labyrinth. That was not my intent. I'm glad that you like labyrinth. For people that like playing labyrinth, I think GGG should keep it like it is. But I also believe that there's a significant percentage of people that dislike labyrinth and it would be best for the game if there was an alternative way to earn the ascendancy points.

"

HarukaTeno wrote:

It's like you've been given a "30 rules of arguments and logical fallacies" book.
Just because you see every build suggesting to take&use ASC.Points - doesn't mean that it is impossible to (successfully) play without those (a.k.a. not necessary).
You can also google "Black Swan Effect" (it's your argument exactly).

Sure.
Playing without ASC.point is like shoting yourself in a leg.
You can jump on one leg but with two you can run.

"

Turtledove wrote:

"

Xavathos wrote:

It's unfortunate that it's impossible to stand for anything anymore without being called either a troll or a white knight. Both terms are clearly a conception of the internetz. We respresent opposing sides of a long-standing discussion, that is literally all there is to it. Neither of us "innocent" and neither of us right or wrong.

With that said, I oppose TD only in his ideas of what the Lab represents and his attitude of late. I don't disrespect or even dislike the man. I remember a time where we had interesting exchanges of ideas regarding the Lab and I even agreed to some of his points. (which is no longer relevant since the changes made to the Lab and trials in 3.0)

I really have no interest in this continued hostility, which is why I stopped posting for a long time in threads like these. I wish he would see this, so that this back and forth throwing of mud may come to an end before GGG steps in and does it for us.

I thought that you were arguing that your statement

"

Xavathos wrote:

A steady stream of a handful of the same vocal minority, sure. Most of which don't even play the game at all, only visit forums to spew toxicity.

was factual. If that wasn't the case then I guess I misunderstood.

Listen Xavathos, I don't know why you're upset with me. So I'll apologize here for everything that I can think of.

Sorry that your statement above about us spewing toxicity and your statement conflating stash tabs with lab caused me to surmise that you were trolling or weren't sober. They really didn't make sense to me and I know that you're an intelligent fellow and it just seemed very out of character for typical Xavathos posts. I really wasn't trying to offend.

I'm sorry if you felt like I was picking on your false statement above about most of us not even playing the game. If you had just incorrectly formed the sentence and didn't say what you meant then I assumed that you would have just corrected the misunderstanding. I was not trying to pick on you. I felt that I was simply trying to defend the good people here that are simply expressing their opinion that labyrinth is bad content. They are not spewing toxicity, from my point of view. My point of view is that it is people coming here to belittle our opinions on the disliked labyrinth that is coming here to spew toxicity.

I'm sorry that I didn't take you up on your kind offer for a carry through labyrinth. I seriously considered it but I've never done anything like that and I just ended up going through uber labyrinth on my own. I've had to take my wife's characters through that loathsome content as well as my own characters. It is a horrible blight on PoE and besmirches and insults GGG's good name.

I'm sorry that you felt like I didn't respect your opinion sufficiently that you like labyrinth. That was not my intent. I'm glad that you like labyrinth. For people that like playing labyrinth, I think GGG should keep it like it is. But I also believe that there's a significant percentage of people that dislike labyrinth and it would be best for the game if there was an alternative way to earn the ascendancy points.

Upset wouldn't be the right way to describe it, but HarukaTeno describes it perfectly imo. You jump at any and all opportunity to hate on the Lab that presents itself to you, as me being an avid supporter of this content, obviously present many such opportunities. So naturally, you'd land in my "lap" as it were on many occasions. That doesn't mean I'm upset with you, though.

You're doing what you think is best and that's completely fine. Just try to keep it on topic, rather than making it personal by trying to imply for example that I'm drunk while posting. If you knew me irl, you'd know how ridiculous that claim is. I'm famous among my friends for always being the only one that doesn't drink on a night out. Well, as far as alcohol goes anyway. I also don't smoke, never have, never will. Not even a cig. I just don't feel the need for it.

My brother once told me that nobody really likes to drink beer, it's disgusting, but you learn to drink it as you drink more of it, that's how most people drink beer. To me that just seemed like the most illogical thing to do ever. To learn to drink something you inherently do not enjoy drinking, by choice. Why wouldn't you just drink something you do enjoy instead?

It's kind of the same as you and the Lab, if you think about it. You could learn to run the Lab and be among at least competent Lab runners, I'm sure, but you still wouldn't enjoy it if you didn't enjoy it to begin with. It would be illogical to attempt such a thing. Just do something else you do enjoy. Just like I could endure a glass of champagne on New Year's Eve, just to be somewhat socially accepted by my peers, you run the Lab so you can get your Ascendancy points. You wouldn't do it again after, because you didn't enjoy it, just like I would just go back to drinking something else.

Great minds think alike, they say. You and me, we're not so different after all. I guess that's why we clash so much on the forums. We understand each other perfectly well, but we don't want to as we each represent opposing sides on the subject.

Well, apology accepted. I'll have a drink on you tonight. Cheers mate.

"

HarukaTeno wrote:

"

Turtledove wrote:

My Feedback to GGG is that labyrinth is loathsome not fun content that is not arpg content that should not be gating something as important as arpg character development.

They (and we all) heard you for the first time.
There's no need to post this in (almost) every thread which has anything related to Labyrinth for over a year.
It seems like you have a "live forum search engine" with "labyrinth" keyword in it. Because you're posting in 99% of the Laby threads.

I'm giving feedback to GGG in the Feedback forum. I suggest that you learn to deal with it. I'm definitely not interested in following your worthless and meaningless advice on this matter.

"

HarukaTeno wrote:

"

Turtledove wrote:

I have zero problem with players that like the loathsome labyrinth. I have zero problem with people saying they like labyrinth and don't want this to change.

So that's why you're insulting them here & there for a long time already?
So that's why you're provoking and humiliating anyone who has the opinion which differs from your POV?
Got it. Keep going.
(don't disappoint me with your answer ;D)

I'm very happy to disappoint you since you've done absolutely nothing to earn a shred of respect from me, you don't deserve a thing. You're being a hypocrite since your first post in this thread accused us all of being irrational and unwilling to learn. It just showed your own inability to understand that I'm simply giving feedback to GGG in the Feedback forum. I suggest that you learn to deal with it or not, since you seem to be the one that is unwilling to learn.

"

Xavathos wrote:

...

Great minds think alike, they say. You and me, we're not so different after all. I guess that's why we clash so much on the forums. We understand each other perfectly well, but we don't want to as we each represent opposing sides on the subject.

Well, apology accepted. I'll have a drink on you tonight. Cheers mate.

What we do have in common is a love of PoE. That's why we're here. Unfortunately for me, PoE is inferior today than the day before labyrinth was released, at least from my point of view. For three years prior to labyrinth, the only game played on my computer was PoE. After that I started playing PoE just part time with diminishing PoE time as time went on until I finally just stopped playing it altogether. Since release 3.0, after the reductions in the loathsome labyrinth content, I'm back to just playing PoE exclusively. Unfortunately, PoE is still inferior today than the day before labyrinth was released. Hopefully, GGG will fix that someday.

On the whole I love the labyrinth. It's just Izaro on the higher labs that I don't like.

His basics are great: a good variety of well telegraphed attacks that are rewarding to dodge etc etc. But I really don't like some of the extra mechanics of the fight (some are okay, some are awful, the randomness of "which one of those will it be" isn't fun), and as someone who doesn't trade or follow the current most powerful builds, on the whole it always feels like a build/gear check that's too far inflated over other parts of the game. Normal and Cruel are okay these days. Merciless I would still tone him down were it my game.

Frogger has no place in an RPG game.

Yes, F the Lab.

I totally agree. And with the "unexpected networking error has occurred" issues,it makes it even worse. I cant count how many offerings I have lost just this week alone because of it.

"

IQof3 wrote:

I totally agree. And with the "unexpected networking error has occurred" issues,it makes it even worse. I cant count how many offerings I have lost just this week alone because of it.

You've posted about disconnects multiple times, nothing will happen until you bother to run the test you've been asked to run. You say it's not your ISP, prove it. And if it isn't, you'll be providing GGG the information they would need to possibly get your problem sorted. So it's a win/win running it. :)

Post the results in the thread you already made in tech help and good luck.