150 points map tab bollocks BONUS: Fragment tab is 75 points, totaling at 22,5$!

my issue is not the greed. they are a commercial entity and in fact they do what they do to earn money

issue i see is hypocrisy. they advertise 'ethical' etc 'soft, cushy, fluffy' business practices while charging hard cash for stuff that DOES affect the way you play (cosmetics DO NOT, stash tabs DO and by A F.. LOT)

so they get both the 'hearts, hugs and kisses' for being 'ethical' (AKA the underdogs who deserve any help they ask) and hard cash from players who are actually locked out of parts of the game

ethical? lol.

i can accept char slots as 'ethical' but.. stash tabs are not. these are typical p2w aspects

and im fine with that. just stop smearing this 'ethical' lie everywhere, it is 100% pure hypocrisy

"

sidtherat wrote:

my issue is not the greed. they are a commercial entity and in fact they do what they do to earn money

issue i see is hypocrisy. they advertise 'ethical' etc 'soft, cushy, fluffy' business practices while charging hard cash for stuff that DOES affect the way you play (cosmetics DO NOT, stash tabs DO and by A F.. LOT)

so they get both the 'hearts, hugs and kisses' for being 'ethical' (AKA the underdogs who deserve any help they ask) and hard cash from players who are actually locked out of parts of the game

ethical? lol.

i can accept char slots as 'ethical' but.. stash tabs are not. these are typical p2w aspects

and im fine with that. just stop smearing this 'ethical' lie everywhere, it is 100% pure hypocrisy

Everything they sell is still convenience, not power. Until they start selling actual character power, they can say ethical as much as they want imo.

"

Telzen wrote:

"

sidtherat wrote:

my issue is not the greed. they are a commercial entity and in fact they do what they do to earn money

issue i see is hypocrisy. they advertise 'ethical' etc 'soft, cushy, fluffy' business practices while charging hard cash for stuff that DOES affect the way you play (cosmetics DO NOT, stash tabs DO and by A F.. LOT)

so they get both the 'hearts, hugs and kisses' for being 'ethical' (AKA the underdogs who deserve any help they ask) and hard cash from players who are actually locked out of parts of the game

ethical? lol.

i can accept char slots as 'ethical' but.. stash tabs are not. these are typical p2w aspects

and im fine with that. just stop smearing this 'ethical' lie everywhere, it is 100% pure hypocrisy

Everything they sell is still convenience, not power. Until they start selling actual character power, they can say ethical as much as they want imo.

By that logic, if they were to introduce a loud as fuck klaxon that goes off every 10 seconds while you're in town/HO, but you can get rid of it for a dollar, that would still be ethical. And that wouldn't even impair your ability to trade as much as the lack of premium tabs does.

"

goetzjam wrote:

MAYBE, GGG should add a tab or two extra for free

my view is until GGG invest more effort in improving trading across the game, every account should be able to earn a premium stash tab for free. (by 'earn' I'd suggest reaching a certain character level on the account like 60 or 70 to unlock it to prevent rmt accounts from being able to insta-create accounts to sell items/currency etc.)


and I say this as a supporter with far more stash tabs that I can keep track of, and as someone that has never traded in this game at all. I just feel it would be good for the game as a whole and do something to disarm people's absurd arguments about this game being p2w.

"

ualac wrote:

to disarm people's absurd arguments about this game being p2w.

But this does not absurd at all. Game have no trade system and if you have no at least one premium tab - you can't use even 'easy' third party website to be able to trade. You can use another ways to trade (forum, trade chat or third party soft), but this is bad and mostly uncomfortable decision almost all of the time.

And amount of things that trade are affected is huge. You want make build with specifiq uniques? Trade is a lot more easy. You want to reach the cap of your defences? Trade is a lot more easy. You want some 'currency' for craft? Trade is a lot more easy.

Pay2Win is something that give you result with minimal time investment in compare with regular Free2Play player, is not?

F2P may be inaccurate? F2T is definitely accurate (free to tryout). Most people never even do the end game activities, even if they have plenty of stash tabs. One could play the story line part of the game over and over for years with only 4 tabs.

"

Turtledove wrote:

F2P may be inaccurate? F2T is definitely accurate (free to tryout). Most people never even do the end game activities, even if they have plenty of stash tabs. One could play the story line part of the game over and over for years with only 4 tabs.

As has been proven time and again, this is a personal issue that stops you from actually doing free to play properly, you want so you must have so it's not free to play

Then you have people who have went through the entire game in blues, not trading, with only 4 tabs.

I have no issue with the tab system, for one simple reason:
The need for these stash tabs is directly related to how much you play the game.

Main story is easily manageable with 0 stash tabs.
You want to map a little ? Grab additional tabs.
You want to map more ? Grab a currency tab. <- Currently at this level myself. Playing since beta.
You want to sell item ? Grab a premium.
You are farming efficiently ? Grab essence / divination.
You are an expert ? Grab the map tab.

The mtx really is ethical. Your need for convenience is directly related to your play time. The tabs really give an edge in convenience. But the need for that convenience is really low until you reach some really high play time.

The map tab is expensive, yes. But it is only useful for players who invest a huge amount of time in the game. IMO, you can't get more fair than that.

got 4 readonly quad tabs of maps from previous league which i wanted to get rid of to prevent them being unlocked when i purchase new ones, so i bought a map stash.


imho they're much too cheap for the utility they provide.

how long can you play world of warcraft for the price of a map stash tab? 2 months?

"

edgewood wrote:

No where does it state that non supporting players will have access to all the qol features and shiny pixels that others have. If you honestly play a game for the hundreds of hours you are bitching about to collect that amount of stuff and are unwilling to support the development of that game you are a leech. GGG idea and business model is to let people experience the full version of the game to ENTICE them into supporting it. There are MANY MANY ways around having to spend money for the qol improvements to play the game and as far as everyone bitching about stash space DEAL with it or create mule account(s). Ohh it takes you 5 minutes to transfer stuff from player a to player b THAT IS WHY IT IS A QOL improvement and NOT a p2win. Does it slow you down yes! But so does playing on a shitty connection or with a potato for a computer, do you also expect ggg to give unlimited servers, pay for your isp and give you a brand new i7? Some of you bitching about this really do think thats the case. There is no Inherent benefit on the non mtx account versus the maxed mtx account in terms of your individual characters ability to KIll any content in the game. THERE is a HUGE difference in the ability to have 1 character versus 10, But the exact same thing could be accomplished with 10 accounts which is NOT against the tos in any way. Heck they even let you run 2 instances at the same time so you can transfer stuff, You just can't have 1 set of controls controlling both toons.

So in summation: stop being a bunch of self entitled brats who think that the world owes you every and anything you want and look at things from an objective reasonable perspective. You will be a much happier individual in the long run.

I bolded some of the parts.

First of all, as always people go into leech/free-loader/whatever argument. Which is, of course, avoiding what I'm trying to talk about and instead go into ad hominems.
I never said I want to be freeloading, if you think about it most people don't want to.
Heck, I'm quite sure I spent more money on PoE than you did.
Should I call you a greedy person who cannot appreciate a good game? Will it change anything?

Secondly, you claim that GGG is enticing us to support them by giving us a great, FREE TO PLAY game, with no p2win. What you are missing is that I said the same thing: I did support GGG because of that.
I supported them because they weren't tunneling us into buying QoL/convenience/advantage features, but only sold MTX and minor convenience like stash tab space, which could easily be replaced with having another mule account. EASILY.
My problem is that they are starting to add more and more stuff that almost has to be bought to play on a decent level. They are adding shitton of new items you should be picking, or you are missing out.
Some people here are proposing to not pick up some items because they are not worth it, example being essences.
Can't you see this is pretty much equivalent of buying minor crafting items from cash shop in some shitty MMOs?

And I'm going to address the leech thing again. I viewed GGG's model as an idea. An ethical idea they were talking so much. They created a game that allowed everyone to participate and be effective, no matter if they paid or not.
Why do I care so much about it being fair for everyone? Because some people simply cannot afford to spend money. Because they don't have any to spend.

When I was beginning to play PoE, I had no money to spend on it. I barely had money to keep myself alive. PoE gave me joy for free, without making me feel like I'm worse than other people who were paying. Without being called a leech be it by developers or other players. And when I finally got the money (decent job, and so on), it felt like I had to repay them for the ethical stuff they did. And I did, more so than I ever should do. Mind you, what I've spent on PoE is equivalent of 2500$, because of currency I'm earning my money in.


If you think about that, you may understand that it pains me to see that GGG is abandoning this idea I felt was crucial to their success. People saw what they were about and supported that idea.
Now it feels like they are going the route of your everydays EA's and Activisions, who think of players as wallets with no minds of their own. They are not there yet, but I will not support this.

Think of it what you want, but I'm disappointed no matter how many ad hominems you throw at me.