ALL HAIL PRESIDENT TRUMP

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Turtledove wrote:

You’re demonstrating your own Trump Delusional Syndrome with that comment. Trump is a racist. He’s following in the footsteps of his KKK father Fred Trump Those articles don’t talk about TDS. They talk about real examples of him exhibiting his racism.

Bless your heart.

Fred Trump was arrested at a KKK rally 1927. This is the same Fred Trump that was Donald Trump's father. He was arrested wearing a KKK hood. From that evidence I conclude that Donald Trump's father was a member of the KKK, although I admit that there's a small possibility he was just pretending to be a KKK member or was just thinking of becoming a member of the KKK.

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/mvke38/all-the-evidence-we-could-find-about-fred-trumps-alleged-involvement-with-the-kkk

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Makillda wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

You’re demonstrating your own Trump Delusional Syndrome with that comment. Trump is a racist. He’s following in the footsteps of his KKK father Fred Trump Those articles don’t talk about TDS. They talk about real examples of him exhibiting his racism.

Bless your heart.

I would have expected Xav to post social media trash to try to prove nonsense. Are you a Xav alt account?

https://www.apnews.com/afs:Content:2601590439

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Turtledove wrote:

Fred Trump was arrested at a KKK rally 1927. This is the same Fred Trump that was Donald Trump's father. He was arrested wearing a KKK hood. From that evidence I conclude that Donald Trump's father was a member of the KKK, although I admit that there's a small possibility he was just pretending to be a KKK member or was just thinking of becoming a member of the KKK.

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/mvke38/all-the-evidence-we-could-find-about-fred-trumps-alleged-involvement-with-the-kkk

Pants on fire!!! LIEEEEE!!!!

No, Donald Trump's parents were not wearing KKK robes in old photo

Okay, I couldn't resist, haha xd.

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RPGlitch wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

Fred Trump was arrested at a KKK rally 1927. This is the same Fred Trump that was Donald Trump's father. He was arrested wearing a KKK hood. From that evidence I conclude that Donald Trump's father was a member of the KKK, although I admit that there's a small possibility he was just pretending to be a KKK member or was just thinking of becoming a member of the KKK.

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/mvke38/all-the-evidence-we-could-find-about-fred-trumps-alleged-involvement-with-the-kkk

Pants on fire!!! LIEEEEE!!!!

No, Donald Trump's parents were not wearing KKK robes in old photo

Okay, I couldn't resist, haha xd.

That is talking about a totally different image not the 1927 KKK rally incident.

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Turtledove wrote:

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RPGlitch wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

Fred Trump was arrested at a KKK rally 1927. This is the same Fred Trump that was Donald Trump's father. He was arrested wearing a KKK hood. From that evidence I conclude that Donald Trump's father was a member of the KKK, although I admit that there's a small possibility he was just pretending to be a KKK member or was just thinking of becoming a member of the KKK.

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/mvke38/all-the-evidence-we-could-find-about-fred-trumps-alleged-involvement-with-the-kkk

Pants on fire!!! LIEEEEE!!!!

No, Donald Trump's parents were not wearing KKK robes in old photo

Okay, I couldn't resist, haha xd.

That is talking about a totally different image not the 1927 KKK rally incident.

Do you know how many family members elected officials had if we go back into time? Even some democrats holding office were in the KKK, why try to associate that with trump?

Trump got along great with like everyone until he was elected, now he is a racist sexist etc.

My favorite was exploiting women in a beauty pagent, its like really guys?

Turtledove, I hope you realize that you're caught in an "ist/phobe" moral panic. Racism (and its brethren: sexist, homophobe, etc) are simply not the Prime Evils you're making them out to be in your head.

Racism is a form of stupid. For instance, let's say me and a racist were tasked with sorting people within a large group into tiers of intelligence. I would have each person take a standardized IQ test; the racist would sort the group by ethnicity, ranking them in some way (e.g. East Asians > Whites > Hispanics > other > Blacks). I am thoroughly convinced that my method, while perhaps not perfect, would grounp people better around their actual intelligence than the racists' method. Because my understanding is closer to reality than the racists', my way is smarter.

Stupid (like racism) isn't good. But stupid is everywhere; you'd die of exhaustion if you got worked up over every idiot theory that causes people to value the lesser over the greater. Other examples of potentially harmful stupid include Flat Earthers, anti-vaxxers, and people who think a Prophet has delivered unto us the true word of God. All of these moronic ideas have proven remarkably tenacious, virtually impossible to eradicate; if we were foolish enough to make the attempt, it would never end successfully. (See also: the war on drugs.) I don't even view that list of things as inherently sinful, because I am reasonably confident that I, despite some degree of earnest effort on my part, have my own stupid.

It's also worth noting that stupid, if not eradicated but merely quarantined, tends to be self-punishing. The company with racist hiring practices risks losing out on the best qualified applicant. The racist Nazi Germany missed out on the genius of German-born Albert Einstein. Parents who teach their children to be anti-vaxxers are less likely to have those children reach maturity to teach it to their children. (See also: the war on drugs.) Stupid simply doesn't work as well for its advocates as smart would.

I'm far more concerned with the types of faults of character that turn knowledge into horror. I don't consider the following list exhaustive, but stuff like gluttony, lust, envy, greed, sloth, pride and wrath. Especially that last one; without that last critical ingredient, the Christchurch shooter would have been a relatively harmless /pol/ manifesto author instead of a mass murderer.

Lying to people on a grand scale is strangely not one of the seven canonical sins, but that type of misbehavior also rustles my jimmies. If I was Dante I would have carved out a level of Hell for the propagandists. But I digress.

It's clear to me that you care super deeply about racism, and it is something that it'd be nice if we no longer had to contend with. But our time on this planet is finite, which means our caring that actually matters — that is, not the virtue-signalling kind — is finite. I think we have bigger fish to fry, and we should be going after those problems harder than, say, the problem of being teased with a gender other than the one you identify as.

Has it ever occurred to you that perhaps all this outrage over slights against minorities, real though they may be, is to distract us from slights against all of us? I'd bet that if we polled people on what the worst sin of all is, these days they'd probably answer racism, sexism or xenophobia. Does this actually make us a stronger society where the consensus is "murder?"

But hey, if you genuinely believe that racism is not just a problem, but THE problem, then by all means, continue. It's not for me to determine racism's ranking on your hierarchy of evil.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

Turtledove, I hope you realize that you're caught in an "ist/phobe" moral panic. Racism (and its brethren: sexist, homophobe, etc) are simply not the Prime Evils you're making them out to be in your head.

Racism is a form of stupid. For instance, let's say me and a racist were tasked with sorting people within a large group into tiers of intelligence. I would have each person take a standardized IQ test; the racist would sort the group by ethnicity, ranking them in some way (e.g. East Asians > Whites > Hispanics > other > Blacks). I am thoroughly convinced that my method, while perhaps not perfect, would grounp people better around their actual intelligence than the racists' method. Because my understanding is closer to reality than the racists', my way is smarter.

Stupid (like racism) isn't good. But stupid is everywhere; you'd die of exhaustion if you got worked up over every idiot theory that causes people to value the lesser over the greater. Other examples of potentially harmful stupid include Flat Earthers, anti-vaxxers, and people who think a Prophet has delivered unto us the true word of God. All of these moronic ideas have proven remarkably tenacious, virtually impossible to eradicate; if we were foolish enough to make the attempt, it would never end successfully. (See also: the war on drugs.) I don't even view that list of things as inherently sinful, because I am reasonable confident that I, despite some degree of earnest effort on my part, have my own stupid.

It's also worth noting that stupid, if not eradicated but merely quarantined, tends to be self-punishing. The company with racist hiring practices risks losing out on the best qualified applicant. The racist Nazi Germany missed out on the genius of German-born Albert Einstein. Parents who teach their children to be anti-vaxxers are less likely to have those children reach maturity to teach it to their children. Stupid simply doesn't work as well for its advocates as smart would.

I'm far more concerned with the types of faults of character that turn knowledge into horror. I don't consider the following list exhaustive, but stuff like gluttony, lust, envy, greed, sloth, pride and wrath. Especially that last one; without that last critical ingredient, the Christchurch shooter would have been a relatively harmless /pol/ manifesto author instead of a mass murderer.

Lying to people on a grand scale is strangely not one of the seven canonical sins, but that type of misbehavior also rustles my jimmies. If I was Dante I would have carved out a level of Hell for the propagandists. But I digress.

It's clear to me that you care super deeply about racism, and it is something that it'd be nice if we no longer had to contend with. But our time on this planet is finite, which means our caring that actually matters — that is, not the virtue-signalling kind — is finite. I think we have bigger fish to fry, and we should be going after those problems harder than, say, the problem of being teased with a gender other than the one you identify as.

Has it ever occurred to you that perhaps all this outrage over slights against minorities, real though they may be, is to distract us from slights against all of us?

But hey, if you genuinely believe that racism is not just a problem, but THE problem, then by all means, continue. It's not for me to determine racism's ranking on your hierarchy of evil.

Perhaps I started this recent Trump the racist discussion. That wasn't really my intent though. I just posted this. https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2031510/page/714#p21893571 Which I thought was a relatively mild reference to Trump's apparent racist leanings. Then it some Trump apologist made the silly claim that there was no real reason to think Drump was racist. So I posted the proof that this was not true, there were many examples of Trump racist comments and actions. If you look at the incidents prior to him runnin for President I think the examples are extra strong.

The more delicious reason for bringing this up is that it seems to really drive some of the Trump apologists extra crazy.

I think Donald Trump's father was super racist, as evidenced by both his flirtation (if not worse) with the KKK and his housing scandal.

I think Donald Trump is far less racist than his father, but still suffers from the effects of being raised by a devout racist. I think if Trump was extremely candid, he'd admit that he knows racism is wrong but he still struggles with the voice of his father, a man (from his perspective) of both profound virtue and numerous flaws, in his own head. But that would be presenting an image of vulnerability and weakness, so Donald Trump would never do that in a million fucking years. If Donald Trump accidentally stepped on your toes in public, he wouldn't publicly apologize; he'd tweet about how you impertinently put your foot in his way. (I'm not sure whether he'd privately apologize on the DL; I can imagine it going either way.)

I don't think any of us are completely non-racist. In particular, I don't think a parent can be, unless they're a really shitty parent. I want my children to get the best lives they can, and — believe it or not — they're the same skin color I am. I try my best, however, to not have it go any further than that.

I'm of the opinion that Trump's barely-racist racism is within tolerances, and not an important priority for improvement. However, at the same time I believe the office of President of the United States should be held to the highest of standards, and while a certain flaw might be a low priority, no flaw, however trivial, is completely off the list. And while I might not agree with or accept a differing prioritization of the items on that list, I am trying harder these days to tolerate and respect such differences of opinion.

From an opportunity cost perspective, criticizing Trump about something other than racism might be better (in my view, is better) than criticizing him on racism. But I think criticizing him on racism is more beneficial than kissing his ass.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

I think Donald Trump's father was super racist, as evidenced by both his flirtation (if not worse) with the KKK and his housing scandal.

I think Donald Trump is far less racist than his father, but still suffers from the effects of being raised by a devout racist. I think if Trump was extremely candid, he'd admit that he knows racism is wrong but he still struggles with the voice of his father, a man (from his perspective) of both profound virtue and numerous flaws, in his own head. But that would be presenting an image of vulnerability and weakness, so Donald Trump would never do that in a million fucking years. If Donald Trump accidentally stepped on your toes in public, he wouldn't publicly apologize; he'd tweet about how you impertinently put your foot in his way. (I'm not sure whether he'd privately apologize on the DL; I can imagine it going either way.)

I don't think any of us are completely non-racist. In particular, I don't think a parent can be, unless they're a really shitty parent. I want my children to get the best lives they can, and — believe it or not — they're the same skin color I am. I try my best, however, to not have it go any further than that.

I'm of the opinion that Trump's barely-racist racism is within tolerances, and not an important priority for improvement. However, at the same time I believe the office of President of the United States should be held to the highest of standards, and while a certain flaw might be a low priority, no flaw, however trivial, is completely off the list. And while I might not agree with or accept a differing prioritization of the items on that list, I am trying harder these days to tolerate and respect such differences of opinion.

From an opportunity cost perspective, criticizing Trump about something other than racism might be better (in my view, is better) than criticizing him on racism. But I think criticizing him on racism is more beneficial than kissing his ass.

I'll agree with you on almost all of this (as with most of your posts actually). The great risk I'm taking here is that it may deflate the up-in-arms Trump apologists that are furiously trying to defend the silly orange faced man on this issue.