[3.x - Discontinued for now] Burning Spectres - Torch the Atlas - HC Shaper, Elder, Uber Atziri

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Kurnis wrote:

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Natt wrote:

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kayella wrote:

I would still consider using the AG with dual wield Dyadus, which in 3.3, gives 200% increased ignited damage.

Dyadus now has "100% increased Damage with Ignites inflicted on Chilled Enemies".

From the way they worded this I believe it only applies to the person/minion carrying the item.

Help a noob out. which spectre is FE? And would you use them only for bosses, and keep SG for clearing? Or are FE good for that too?

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pkirill wrote:

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LaplaceNoMa wrote:

AG is great with SGs, but requires slightly different items.

Chest: Zandessu's or Belly.

Nice info, but what is Zandessu's ?

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grimjack68 wrote:

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Mordrigar wrote:

So, lots of builds got their buffs but this one nerfed a bit, right? Dyadus was really helping on boss kills.

Will there be any update on this one? I'm gonna use it as starter.

I wouldn't be concerned, to be honest. I've run the last 2 leagues without an AG at all, and all content ... except HotGM ... is still quite simple.

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AzureGlacier wrote:

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grimjack68 wrote:

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Mordrigar wrote:

So, lots of builds got their buffs but this one nerfed a bit, right? Dyadus was really helping on boss kills.

Will there be any update on this one? I'm gonna use it as starter.

I wouldn't be concerned, to be honest. I've run the last 2 leagues without an AG at all, and all content ... except HotGM ... is still quite simple.

Huh. So says someone who actually did no shaper, no uber atziri, no red elder, of course no uber elder, and only one guardian in the last two leagues.
Maybe next time someone says something like that, someone just sets his profile private first.
I'm not a good player of course. But I never pretend to be one.

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AzureGlacier wrote:

Huh. So says someone who actually did no shaper, no uber atziri, no red elder, of course no uber elder, and only one guardian in the last two leagues.
Maybe next time someone says something like that, someone just sets his profile private first.
I'm not a good player of course. But I never pretend to be one.

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grimjack68 wrote:

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AzureGlacier wrote:

Huh. So says someone who actually did no shaper, no uber atziri, no red elder, of course no uber elder, and only one guardian in the last two leagues.
Maybe next time someone says something like that, someone just sets his profile private first.
I'm not a good player of course. But I never pretend to be one.

This from a guy with 10 forum posts and a history that doesn't include playing this build at all? However, how about we concentrate on discussing the build, rather than debating our lack of experience, recent or not. Sounds a lot more productive to me.

Full disclosure: I'm not running this build pure anymore, haven't for quite a while. I went from this build to Solar Guards, to a hybrid of both, and last league I ran a modified tree, emphasising life / energy shield to take advantage of the CWDT / Unearth / Spirit Offering infinite energy shield setup. If, in your opinion, this makes me any less on point, feel free to skip over my posts.

I keep my profile public so folks can check out alternative gear setups. I'm not going to change that in the hope it will make my opinions and advice more relevant.

PS: LaplaceNoMa - Well said. :) I ran a ghosted phoenix with AG in a +2 minion gems helm, with AG 20 / fortify 20 / minion life 20 / empower 3, using a Bringer of Rain and Southbound gloves. His health dipped a couple times, but nothing worrisome. Honestly, I was more concerned about MY survival. I quit using AG because I can't reliably keep him alive without the +2 minion gems helm, and I've been using pseudo 6L elder helmets for spectres instead of equipping an AG. *And* collecting all the gear to resummon him is just a PITA, nobody wants to portal back from whatever they are doing to sell gear worth an alc.

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CastielleZero wrote:

Is there any way we could get a brief outline on that modified tree and the CWDT setup?

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LaplaceNoMa wrote:

I've been playing this build since Harbinger. I completed HoGM without an AG. I completed all content in 3.0 with tabula without an AG. I had no trouble going through Chayula's without an AG both in Harbinger and in Turmoil event from then (my run is listed in the OP post). I ended up being first non-aura-support necro in Turmoil, while playing exclusively this build with WMs/TVs, mostly running T15-T16 maps with good Turmoil mods instead of running lower-level shaped stuff like Racecourse - without AG.

I only used AG this time in Flashback, and this time I actually was using SGs. It was mainly for Victario's Flight, not for damage.

Let me tell you this: both before the changes to TVs in 3.1 and after those changes, the presence of a Dyadus AG should've not been even remotely noticeable unless you were fighting a 'Unique boss has % more HP' Minotaur or Phoenix. I intentionally left out Chimera or Hydra, or any end-game bosses. Because well, you see, with correct curses, with correct itemization and with correct gems, bosses like Uber Izaro, Uber Atziri, Shaper, Chimera or Hydra would jump to their immunity phases way before an AG (if present) could've realistically reach them anyway.

Also, for AG to be useful on harder bosses IF you are so insistent on having some T16 Abyssal Lich transition to his 'Stygian Spyre' phase in 1 second instead of 2, you kinda have to give him a proper 4-link, most likely in the helmet for +2 to minion skills. Unless you do it, you have to take a shitton of otherwise useless regen/life/resist nodes on the tree for AG to be able to survive the usual stuff that's going on on those bosses. So, there goes any possibility of having the shaper helm for a pseudo-6link. Again, I'll be surprised to see anyone successfully use an AG socketed in something other than helm while also not having the useless nodes like minion life near Lord of the Dead and Gravepact, life&regen near Death Attunement, Puppet Master or Herd the Flock (I hope most people have realized by now that those two are completely irrelevant for spectres themselves). Even with a full-beef setup like 21 AG + 21 Minion life + 4 Emp + 21 Fortify, that won't be enough for him to survive any situations, there WOULD be a constant need to watch him and possibly unsummon him.

All while there are much, much better options for both clearspeed and bossing. I didn't run this build in this league, though; however, from what I see, nothing really changed much in that regard.

Bottom line - AG is a good thing to have for a clearspeed-oriented build, mostly because his duty is to give auras; he shouldn't and he wouldn't be able to even touch any packs - setups with Melee Splash look especially absurd to me (I mean, if your clearspeed is so shitty that your AG actually has the time to reach some pack and splash-hit it, you should be searching for possible issues anywhere but in AG). And on harder bosses, ever since Harbinger all I'm seeing is 'I usually unsummon him on *boss X*', and stuff like that.

So no, the idea that 'this build got nerfed by the dyadus nerf' is complete and utter fake news that have nothing to do with reality. This build never relied on AG, and AG was even more of a slight luxury (that also comes with inconveniences) than getting a +1 corrupt on Bones of Ullr.

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LaplaceNoMa wrote:

Even with a full-beef setup like 21 AG + 21 Minion life + 4 Emp + 21 Fortify, that won't be enough for him to survive any situations, there WOULD be a constant need to watch him and possibly unsummon him.

...AG was even more of a slight luxury (that also comes with inconveniences) than getting a +1 corrupt on Bones of Ullr.

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PanZly wrote:

You actually didn't mention about the "+2 to Level of Socketed Gems" shield which seems to be the best setup for big bosses, you get 28 AG + 28 Minion life.

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kinglor wrote:

The only thing is... that we need to test it in game, and if the theory work, just need to test if the dmg is better and if the FEs will survive the fights.