A New Proposal for Addressing Labyrinth Hatred

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goetzjam wrote:

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If GGG gave custom leagues, or a "wussy mode" and an "Uber Merciless" at least, where you either lose no EXP on death or a full level upon dying, so we could further tailor the experience, most of the complains regarding even "Labyrinth" as it is right now would have a smaller impact.

Custom leagues is different then trying to cater the game to appeal to the masses. In one case you pay paying to play the game in the fashion you want, within whatever guidelines they setup for custom leagues. Because they are custom leagues it doesn't matter really to me if you have one without the lab, because you are paying for the modified game. It doesn't really impact me. That isn't to say that all custom leagues would have no impact on me, I feel like custom leagues with modified (read increased drop rates) or large sandbox mode style ones could be problematic. But again, you are putting your money where your mouth is and voicing your concern with money, instead of just empty words, which many of the people that dislike the lab do. Re-stating the same useless shit over and over again, as if its somehow correct.

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Introducing more "Hardcore" in a Softcore experience feels lackustre as long as other concerns regarding "Difficulty" and "Balance" are continuously neglected.

Its sort of a taste, its not so much hardcore in softcore, as a specific challenge that needs to be overcame. The only hardcore thing really about the lab in a softcore environment is you lose something (other then time) in the uber lab, which is the offering.

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This content doesn't separate true ARPG fans from crybabies, because as long as there is a "right way" to abuse something, there will be people that exploit that to their advantage.

It separates the people that understand how poe used to function from how games from other companies work.

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And a lot of the ideas are set to offer alternate options to improve the experience that PoE provides for everyone.

People that dislike the lab and want AC points offered elsewhere do not care one bit about other users experiences, they just care about their own selfish desires. GGG knows this, the people that post know this, the only person that seems to not know this is you. Because there is a difference between saying "es builds take too much damage from traps in the lab" and getting adjusted and posting a massive list of changes to the lab that essentially shit on the whole ideas put forth by GGG.

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If something feels underwhelming, those of us that think that we could offer suggestions or plain feedback that can be used by GGG to improve the game that we all enjoy, makes this section of forum have threads that are worthy to read.

Again, there is a difference between giving feedback and moving on, and making it your life fucking goal (like some people here) to do anything they can to get it to change. Its not healthy. While we've went back in forth on stuff, its about the best discussion thats ever really happened in terms of the lab, but ultimately its a lot of changes you want and even the die hard hate the lab people are still skeptical of your massive changes. If they are, don't you think GGG is as well?

Lets say the issue is 4 out of 10 for GGG, if your suggestion changes it to a 3 out of 10 is it worth implementing all of those and perhaps causing people that like the status quo to become an issue then? Is it worth saying hey we fucked up this design, despite sharing our idea behind it? Perhaps they dont think they fucked up the design and want to stand by it, people like you then bash them for doing nothing to appeal to you specifically. This game was never about these sorts of things, it was about the bigger picture, the whole massive power creep for something a bit different.

I've said it before and will say it again, I would be ok if they removed the lab completely, if they took the AC points with it. But they won't do that, just as much as they won't stop making this game more casual and trying to appeal to more players. For this reason GGG no longer sees large supporter packs from me, for this reason GGG no longer gets 1 month+ of my dedication to this game. They are starting to fail to realize the special stuff that made this game so awesome, because almost everything that project pt stated is coming true. They are alienating old players in order to acquire new ones. Hopefully 3.0 changes this, but I doubt it...

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So no, we should always complain, but also offer arguments and accept counterarguments when needed.

You should always give your feedback, that is much different then complaining. Beating a dead horse is not beneficial. If something changes with the lab or AC points in such a way that makes it worth rediscussing then by all means bring it up again. But this rederic of constant fucking nagging at GGG about the lab is annoying and taking prime time away from staff that can be doing other things.