UBER LAB IS FUCKED

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Trylobyte wrote:

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gibbousmoon wrote:

Those who are not suckers do exactly what the Labyrinth currently encourages them to do: Play as little of it as possible and skip as much of it as possible to get to the piñatas, pop them, rinse and repeat.

This is NOT a fun emergent behavior. Many have said that it feels like work, including (significantly) fans of the Labyrinth, specifically fans of its rewards. But it is the only LOGICAL emergent behavior, for anyone who wants to maximally profit from the Lab.

You know, if you remove the references to Lab and replace them with maps, or Normal/Cruel difficulties, or pre-map Merciless, or even farming for gear, it's still true. Your statement is a summary of how most people play the entire game - Skip as much as possible, pop the loot piñatas, and move on. All you're saying here is that people play the Lab exactly like people play late-game mapping with Shaped Strand. Or how people treat the Acts. You can't say this behavior is the fault of the Lab specifically because it's not, it's just how a lot of people play Path of Exile.

For maps I clear almost all monsters and open almost all chests. Groups that I've played in do the same. From that I would assume that most people play maps that way? It's interesting that you apparently don't. Am I misunderstanding or do you just go for the map boss and when the map boss is killed you are done with the map? I assume that you at least kill almost all of the monsters on the way to the map boss and open chests you see?

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Turtledove wrote:

For maps I clear almost all monsters and open almost all chests. Groups that I've played in do the same. From that I would assume that most people play maps that way? It's interesting that you apparently don't. Am I misunderstanding or do you just go for the map boss and when the map boss is killed you are done with the map? I assume that you at least kill almost all of the monsters on the way to the map boss and open chests you see?

Well yeah, you clear the maps of most of the monsters and pop most of the chests. But what maps do you run? A lot of people will run, as a majority of their maps, Beach, Mesa, Strand, and Atoll (or their shaped variants) - Maps where backtracking is minimal and everything is in a more or less straight line. In this case the philosophy is applied on a general level - Skip the bad maps entirely and run only the good ones, and configure everything so that you get as many 'good maps' as possible.

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The_Reporter wrote:

Thank you for your continued helpful, non-toxic contributions to the community of a game you don't play or support.

As opposed to your continued non helpful, toxic contributions to the game you say is so unplayable that its impossible to play until the lab gets changed.

I still play every league and I plan on playing 3.0 a large amount, including in the beta.

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Trylobyte wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

For maps I clear almost all monsters and open almost all chests. Groups that I've played in do the same. From that I would assume that most people play maps that way? It's interesting that you apparently don't. Am I misunderstanding or do you just go for the map boss and when the map boss is killed you are done with the map? I assume that you at least kill almost all of the monsters on the way to the map boss and open chests you see?

Well yeah, you clear the maps of most of the monsters and pop most of the chests. But what maps do you run? A lot of people will run, as a majority of their maps, Beach, Mesa, Strand, and Atoll (or their shaped variants) - Maps where backtracking is minimal and everything is in a more or less straight line. In this case the philosophy is applied on a general level - Skip the bad maps entirely and run only the good ones, and configure everything so that you get as many 'good maps' as possible.

What I was referring to was your statement, "Skip as much as possible, pop the loot piñatas, and move on." I was just wondering if that was true for maps for you because it doesn't seem to agree with my experience? I can see that being true for many (most experienced?) players when leveling a character through the story line content. I mean yes, I do like the maps you list better and will run them first but if I want to run a map at a certain level then I'll run one of the other maps that might require backtracking because I still clear almost all monsters. (I've didn't try to "shape" my Atlas.)

Welcome to the stupid Labyrinth!

Just my two cent to this "addon". ;)

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SoiledPride wrote:

This is the most bullshit part of the stupid fucking game.
How can you justify having fucked up traps that kill so fucking fast in the fucking dark.
6 fucking offerings I just went through and I finally got to the last phase and get fucking 1 shot.
1 SHOT!
[Removed by Support]
THEN ONE SHOT!
JUSTIFY THAT.
[Removed by Support]
FUCK THE STUPID LAB.

Or maybe you're not yet ready to complete it? You know, cuz most people can do it no problem. There are builds that will have problems with certain phases, but overall most (proper) builds should do it fine.

Why does people assume that if they cannot do something there must be something wrong about that certain thing?

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Trylobyte wrote:

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gibbousmoon wrote:

Those who are not suckers do exactly what the Labyrinth currently encourages them to do: Play as little of it as possible and skip as much of it as possible to get to the piñatas, pop them, rinse and repeat.

This is NOT a fun emergent behavior. Many have said that it feels like work, including (significantly) fans of the Labyrinth, specifically fans of its rewards. But it is the only LOGICAL emergent behavior, for anyone who wants to maximally profit from the Lab.

You know, if you remove the references to Lab and replace them with maps, or Normal/Cruel difficulties, or pre-map Merciless, or even farming for gear, it's still true. Your statement is a summary of how most people play the entire game - Skip as much as possible, pop the loot piñatas, and move on. All you're saying here is that people play the Lab exactly like people play late-game mapping with Shaped Strand. Or how people treat the Acts. You can't say this behavior is the fault of the Lab specifically because it's not, it's just how a lot of people play Path of Exile.

OK, I obviously really suck at making my point clear. Please bear with me as I attempt to do so one more time.

If the entire game were

A. not randomized, and
B. posted up on reddit for everyone to see,

then your point would hold true. This would essentially be the equivalent of a sanctioned maphack for the entire game. And it would surely be accompanied by complaints from everyone and their grandmother that the only way to access this maphack is via reddit. "Why don't you just add the maphack to the game? What's the point of making us go to reddit to get it? That doesn't add any fun to the game at all; it just adds additional pointless work." <-- This is exactly what you would see on the forums in response to such an initiative.

In any game of this nature, if all dev-provided affordances prescribe efficiency > exploration, or destination > journey, then the provided gameplay will necessarily feel more like work than like play, because that is exactly what it will become: a pure exercise in economic gain instead of an intrinsically fun process which incidentally leads to economic gain.



This thankfully doesn't describe PoE overall, but the Labyrinth is a mini-version of the nightmare I just described. Thus, even if you tweaked/removed the traps, even if you re-tuned Izaro, even if you added some sort of disconnect protections, many players would still insist that it is not fun content.

Thus I don't believe any suggested Labyrinth tweaks can be effective without taking the above into account. So long as the Labyrinth feels more like a job than a game, the various complaints and Labyrinth hatred will continue to pour in, demotivating existing players and (not to put too fine a point on it) incentivizing them to steer their friends away from this game. (As I am now wont to do--sorry GGG devs. I still love you.)

And that's why I feel that actual randomization is a necessary first step in making the Labyrinth fun. And the elimination of carries, and resulting conflicts of interest, is a necessary first step in repairing the damage to the community this content has caused.

So buy a carry and stop complaining or you know git gud ?

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BestMageKR wrote:

So buy a carry and stop complaining or you know git gud ?

Because being carried through boring content is somehow less boring than playing boring content?

Do you even bother to read perspectives which are not your own?