UBER LAB IS FUCKED

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Zalhan2 wrote:

If this game isn't your cup of tea stop playing it!

Zalhan, that is good advice in general, but in this instance it is only valid to the extent the Labyrinth dominates a player's subjective experience of the game. Why else would Labyrinth hatred be so vicious and yet not drive players away from the game entirely?

I do believe that this is Chris Wilson's thinking as well: As time goes on and more content is added, the relative influence on a player's experience exerted by the Labyrinth will naturally drop, thus taking the heat off of the team, little by little.

My position is that the Labyrinth is way too cool a concept to be abandoned like that. Why let the hard work of the Labyrinth devs go to waste by leaving it in its currently awful state? There are qualitative flaws which can and should be fixed (let's start by killing the obnoxiously linear piñata-chasing reddit meta, by randomizing the fucker).

"

gibbousmoon wrote:

"

Zalhan2 wrote:

If this game isn't your cup of tea stop playing it!

Zalhan, that is good advice in general, but in this instance it is only valid to the extent the Labyrinth dominates a player's subjective experience of the game. Why else would Labyrinth hatred be so vicious and yet not drive players away from the game entirely?

I do believe that this is Chris Wilson's thinking as well: As time goes on and more content is added, the relative influence on a player's experience exerted by the Labyrinth will naturally drop, thus taking the heat off of the team, little by little.

My position is that the Labyrinth is way too cool a concept to be abandoned like that. Why let the hard work of the Labyrinth devs go to waste by leaving it in its currently awful state? There are qualitative flaws which can and should be fixed (let's start by killing the obnoxiously linear piñata-chasing reddit meta, by randomizing the fucker).

It's a core progression gateway. If you do not like it stop playing!!!!!

"

gibbousmoon wrote:

"

Zalhan2 wrote:

If this game isn't your cup of tea stop playing it!

Zalhan, that is good advice in general, but in this instance it is only valid to the extent the Labyrinth dominates a player's subjective experience of the game. Why else would Labyrinth hatred be so vicious and yet not drive players away from the game entirely?

I do believe that this is Chris Wilson's thinking as well: As time goes on and more content is added, the relative influence on a player's experience exerted by the Labyrinth will naturally drop, thus taking the heat off of the team, little by little.

My position is that the Labyrinth is way too cool a concept to be abandoned like that. Why let the hard work of the Labyrinth devs go to waste by leaving it in its currently awful state? There are qualitative flaws which can and should be fixed (let's start by killing the obnoxiously linear piñata-chasing reddit meta, by randomizing the fucker).

You and others keep talking as if the design of the lab wasn't to have some fixed style outlets from run to run. There are reasons for this, including but not limited to the daily race, the fact the lab is in a broken state, ect.

"

goetzjam wrote:

"

gibbousmoon wrote:

"

Zalhan2 wrote:

If this game isn't your cup of tea stop playing it!

Zalhan, that is good advice in general, but in this instance it is only valid to the extent the Labyrinth dominates a player's subjective experience of the game. Why else would Labyrinth hatred be so vicious and yet not drive players away from the game entirely?

I do believe that this is Chris Wilson's thinking as well: As time goes on and more content is added, the relative influence on a player's experience exerted by the Labyrinth will naturally drop, thus taking the heat off of the team, little by little.

My position is that the Labyrinth is way too cool a concept to be abandoned like that. Why let the hard work of the Labyrinth devs go to waste by leaving it in its currently awful state? There are qualitative flaws which can and should be fixed (let's start by killing the obnoxiously linear piñata-chasing reddit meta, by randomizing the fucker).

You and others keep talking as if the design of the lab wasn't to have some fixed style outlets from run to run. There are reasons for this, including but not limited to the daily race, the fact the lab is in a broken state, ect.

You are not wrong.

I agree that some aspects of the lab are indeed broken by design and not by accident.

That, however, is not a reason imo to neglect opportunities to fix those problems. Designs can (and obviously do) include mistakes as well.

The reddit meta / daily races are clearly a design decision which lowers the overall quality of the Labyrinth for any average member of its intended audience.

Even tho the first post is pretty stupid ..

I agree with this Uber Lab being completely dumb ... and it shouldnt be endgame at all ...

We want something like Atziri, Shaper ... where we have a few tries, where we can die, where we can bleed the hell out ..

and not stupid random 1 shots every 2nd lab you run - if you dont run one of the few op builds that cant die at all ...


It just isnt about skill, its about pure luck and build...

Also life builds having a MEGA HUGE advance ... because of insta life bottles - over es builds

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exxidus wrote:

and not stupid random 1 shots every 2nd lab you run - if you dont run one of the few op builds that cant die at all ...

No it isn't, you don't need an OP meta build to do uber lab.
Just a good, well built character.

"

exxidus wrote:

Also life builds having a MEGA HUGE advance ... because of insta life bottles - over es builds

And not really .....
As an example, occultist says hi.

And even if life builds did have an advantage in there .... that would not be fair because ES based build already have an advantage is basically everywhere else ? Is that what you are thinking ?
.....

"

gibbousmoon wrote:

I agree that some aspects of the lab are indeed broken by design and not by accident.

That, however, is not a reason imo to neglect opportunities to fix those problems. Designs can (and obviously do) include mistakes as well.

The reddit meta / daily races are clearly a design decision which lowers the overall quality of the Labyrinth for any average member of its intended audience.

Except the intention was to have "good days" vs bad days, instead of just a good run vs a random one. You see the daily threads as an issue, while GGG pretty much predicted it before they even released the content.

You have an odd fascination with wanting to make the lab even harder on those people that already complain about the lab. I guess you want to give them something to complain about?

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and not stupid random 1 shots every 2nd lab you run - if you dont run one of the few op builds that cant die at all ...


It just isnt about skill, its about pure luck and build...

Also life builds having a MEGA HUGE advance ... because of insta life bottles - over es builds

What are you getting 1 shot by?


Its 100% about skill, if you play properly with positon and have a full understanding of his mechanics, what exactly are you going to die to? Is there some random switch you hit that instantly kills you? No, its not about luck at all.


Life builds may have life flask, but es builds take a lower portion of damage compared to life as well as having a way to recharge faster then life builds can. No one is complaining about es builds having a hard time with the lab anymore, that was so last year.

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exxidus wrote:

Even tho the first post is pretty stupid ..

I agree with this Uber Lab being completely dumb ... and it shouldnt be endgame at all ...

We want something like Atziri, Shaper ... where we have a few tries, where we can die, where we can bleed the hell out ..

and not stupid random 1 shots every 2nd lab you run - if you dont run one of the few op builds that cant die at all ...


It just isnt about skill, its about pure luck and build...

Also life builds having a MEGA HUGE advance ... because of insta life bottles - over es builds

If you're getting one shot in the lab, then that means you haven't built to be able to deal with the mechanics, or that you should have dealt with the mechanics in an earlier phase, so they wouldn't be there, stacked with the other in the final fight.

Also, LOL instant pots giving a massive advantage... you say you're getting one shot, but somehow an instant pot is gonna help that?

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Docbp87 wrote:

"

exxidus wrote:

Even tho the first post is pretty stupid ..

I agree with this Uber Lab being completely dumb ... and it shouldnt be endgame at all ...

We want something like Atziri, Shaper ... where we have a few tries, where we can die, where we can bleed the hell out ..

and not stupid random 1 shots every 2nd lab you run - if you dont run one of the few op builds that cant die at all ...


It just isnt about skill, its about pure luck and build...

Also life builds having a MEGA HUGE advance ... because of insta life bottles - over es builds

If you're getting one shot in the lab, then that means you haven't built to be able to deal with the mechanics, or that you should have dealt with the mechanics in an earlier phase, so they wouldn't be there, stacked with the other in the final fight.

Also, LOL instant pots giving a massive advantage... you say you're getting one shot, but somehow an instant pot is gonna help that?

havent had a single life build so far, that got insta killed ... tons of es builds get insta killed if not OP gear, or OP build (meta trash) ... life is the only way i could play without meta builds to be able to make endgame content ... es is pretty much same builds all over the place