I really hate lab

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mezmery wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

If we're going to change the subject to layouts then my position is that having to go to something outside PoE to reference what the current layout is before doing a labyrinth run then there is something wrong with the labyrinth, at least labyrinth runs associated with ascendancy points rather than farming.

you go somewhere outside poe to find trading deals, so going outside poe for any other game reason is ok.

lab is one of the most profitable farm ingame vs time spent, second after breachlord gamble.

I'm sure that you're correct but I'm not talking about the more elite PoE players that post in this forum. Most people do not trade just like I suspect most people never farm labyrinth. They just play through the story line of the game and then maybe dabble a bit in early level maps. Those people may occasionally reference the PoE wiki but would never look for lab layouts and probably don't even know that such a thing exists. These folks would probably want to ascend their characters though, at least for the first few ascendancy points but probably never complete endgame labyrinth.

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Turtledove wrote:

I'm sure that you're correct but I'm not talking about the more elite PoE players that post in this forum. Most people do not trade just like I suspect most people never farm labyrinth. They just play through the story line of the game and then maybe dabble a bit in early level maps. Those people may occasionally reference the PoE wiki but would never look for lab layouts and probably don't even know that such a thing exists. These folks would probably want to ascend their characters though, at least for the first few ascendancy points but probably never complete endgame labyrinth.

It's interesting how the people that are apologists for the current state of lab have no problem admitting that they use poelab, while never realizing why something like poe lab exists in the first place.

It's truly an amazing irony.

From my perspective as an old d2/LOD player, a game that this one is very unapologetically based on, using a map hack to display the map giving another player an unfair advantage and boost in speed was an offense you got banned for.

Now I understand fully that the devs here have made no such statements, to my knowledge, about such a site, and I don't know you would even enforce such a thing. But the people saying it's not a cheat are deluding themselves.

Why not just have it in game then?

At the plaque:

Dear player, here is today's map layout of the random labyrinth. Argus is in room 4 at the bottom right of the room, Izaro will be featuring gargoyles and will be using maces. Oh, and there is a really good shrine in hidden room 6 towards the left.

Please see the arrows on the lab floor for the fastest route to the content. Here are your quicksilver flasks and a pumped up regalia so you don't have to worry like those lifer melee people.. gg.

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ewolow wrote:

Now I understand fully that the devs here have made no such statements, to my knowledge, about such a site, and I don't know you would even enforce such a thing. But the people saying it's not a cheat are deluding themselves.

Why not just have it in game then?

At the plaque:

Dear player, here is today's map layout of the random labyrinth. Argus is in room 4 at the bottom right of the room, Izaro will be featuring gargoyles and will be using maces. Oh, and there is a really good shrine in hidden room 6 towards the left.

Please see the arrows on the lab floor for the fastest route to the content. Here are your quicksilver flasks and a pumped up regalia so you don't have to worry like those lifer melee people.. gg.

They supported the community sharing information about the lab since day 1 it was design as such, just like tempest and warbands.


Keep talking like you know anything, when its clear you dont.


The reason to not have it in the game is that it takes a community effort to get all the little secrets and shit, its not force feed, its available after a little bit if you would like to know what is going on.

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j33bus wrote:

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CaliforniaPyro wrote:

I have zero problems beating uber lab on bascially any char I play. Dodging traps is easy.
However, I hate lab and wish it would burn in hell. It's stupid as fuck, especially to standard league players who are choosing to play standard because they don't want to deal with hardcore mechanics.

The fanboi flowers who always crop up to insult people who don't like lab tend to always sound the same. They tell you that you don't know how to do it, basically LEARN TO PLAY.

Fuck you. I know how to play and uber lab is easy as fuck and I hate playing it.
So go measure your penis elsewhere.

The truth is the majority of POE players hate lab. end of story. GGG should figure out some simple fixes.... actually it's all been suggested to them. Just implement some of the community ideas.

Ok what do you hate about the lab that is actually different than the rest of the game? Traps? A checkpoint a little further back? I know you like to think the majority of people think like you, but seriously do you honestly believe that the majority of people give two shits either way? It's just an angry fad that most people wouldn't have given a second thought to normally. The lab is hardly different enough content to warrant anything remotely similar to the response it's getting, and the constant cropping up hate threads got people to push back from the vitriol against it, because frankly there was a new thread saying nothing of substance cropping up every hour for a long time.

That said GGG has actual data and seem to think people mostly like the lab or are at least neutral about it. So ask yourself, how is the lab that different from the rest of the game, or at least the pre mapping leveling process?

yes thank you for asking. What is different is the traps and how they damage the player and the lack of being able to portal out when needed.

The length of it I don't care about. it's one of those classic things in POE where you can do it in 5 mins or 45 mins... really depends on your skill and how you purposely approach the game. That's neat, but I understand newer players feeling like crap... because of the above two problems.

1) they can't portal out at any point to take a break, answer the phone, answer the door, take a piss
2) the traps are totally foreign to the rest of the game and so over tuned that they are often times the most dangerous part of lab for many many builds and players.


See, players can learn the izaro fight, and they can dodge around him, and get their damage and defences to the point of being able to beat him... but still die to traps in some bullshit endless trap section.

Endless trap sections are complete bullshit. They aren't even hard with the right characters, but can prove to be impossible for many newer players/builds where they just die and run it again hoping for no endless trap. Basically just rerolling the map like in D3.

And they do not have data saying players LIKE it or APPROVE of it. Have you EVER been given that survey? You know they would do a survey to figure that out, right? Have you ever even heard of of a player survey from GGG? No. They have data on how many people do lab, and how many people do it ONE TIME, and how many people quit before doing it 4 times... general stuff like that. But the fact that 95% of players do it 4 times ONCE... doesn't mean ANY Of those people like it AT ALL (or whatever their data numbers are).

Like the case I made with WHITE leaguestones. I'm sure GGG will see LOTS OF THEM being used, but the fact that we're using them doesn't mean we LIKE THEM. Maybe we are using them because we basically have to, because they are better than normal map rolls, but not because we enjoy them or because they are a hook that will keep up playing. In fact, if you survey'd the players " Do you find white leaguestones 1) enjoyable, 2) mildly enjoyable, 3)don't care, 4) boring, 5) offensive"

And allowed the survey to be BLIND, so the player feels comfortable answering, they would get REAL DATA about PLAYERS OPINIONS.

I agree they shouldn't just take suggestions off of this forum. GOD NO

So with uber lab the survey to willing players would be "Would you describe Uber Lab to be closest to which of the following 1) Best feature of the game, I love it, 2) It's enjoyable, I run it occasionally even though I have all my points, 3) I run it to get my points and never go back in, 4) It really makes me not want to play the game but I'll do it anyways, 5) I refuse to play POE until you fix Lab"

Again, you will need to survey current and PAST PLAYERS. It is very important for them to get data from PAST PLAYER BASE from unsolicited emails from GGG to those people and combine it with people who are actively playing.

This is called marketing, btw.
After that they would then fix or keep Lab the same depending on the surveys they collect and their professional opinions on the matter, then ADVERTISE their changes to try to bring back past players and encourage current players.

marketing and advertising are not the same thing, but marketing often leads to advertising to a market of people, to let them know the company is willing to conform to that market and attract that market's currency back into the company.

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ewolow wrote:

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Fruz wrote:

Irrelevant, PoE has always been like this from the start, it has always been a game that was meant to provide a hardcore experience.

According to whom? What metric, what standard? All we have here is your say so. Did you ever play D2/LOD? (Which is the model and metric for this game) I cannot imagine anyone calling d2 play to level 100 "Hardcore".

No it isn't.
Get real.

PoE is just a game that GGG develops, and they set what it should and should not be, you don't, and you never ever will.
And GGG has always said that they were developping a game according to their vision, that of a hardcore gamer's team.
From the very start.

But Torturo is right, it has became less and less hardcore, only just saying that Lab has nothing to do here because it gives players a hardcore-like experience is a blatant and pathetic lie, since the original state of the game is about providing a hardcore experience.


And who said that some people did not have a valuable opinion here ? There you go abouttrying to spread fallacies now ... good job.

Lab does not gate relative to the builds, not more than maps, not more than malachai, etc ....
If you can't do it properly, it's your fault, that is very different.
But I guess that it is easier to tell yourself that it's not your fault because the lab is screwing up your whole build, better do that than try to understand I guess heh.

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Torturo wrote:

Speaking in general, nowadays PoE is casual as fuck, and that's intentional, the more successful marketing strategy. It's just much more complicated than other games in the genre, but the HC tag isn't there.

As much as I agree that many things have became too casual, there are many things that are clearly not for casual players in the game, many.



PS : Thinking that GGG didn't intend and expect people to share the layout of the lab on the internet is delusional at best, stupid at worse.
Like seriously, it's also quite ignorant to be honest.

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The_Reporter wrote:

Listen, Friz. If GGG kew that the no-lifer casuals would be sharing the daily layout around, and they are expecting all players to follow it, then why didn't GGG just include the path on the in game map?

It makes no sense. ZERO.

Because GGG giving players everything on a silver plate is totally the same as people sharing an information together, right ?
.............

Are you serious here ? ( since you have been QQing from the start )
Or are you trolling once more ? ( since you have been QQing from the start, pretty sure that you already knew that )

The difference being really obvious, I will let you think about it.


Just a hint : the fact that many players do not know about this and need to search about it is a thing here.
Have you noticed how the whole game let the player try out stuff ( and eventually players document it ) instead of just giving all information ?
One would assume that you are aware of that, but ...