I really hate lab

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Fruz wrote:

PoE would not be here without hardcore gamer.

Yeah? I started 2 months before Kripp. I'm still here, I'm still contributing. Where is he?

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Fruz wrote:

Poe has all been designed for hardcore gamer to start with, it has always been like this, this is what PoE is.

You can still play it if you are very casual, but better adjust your expectations.
(Not, I'm not to the point were I would consider myself a hardcore gamer, but I'm invested enough in PoE, and I am not expecting to hit 100 and I will likely never beat shaper. But lab is no problem.)

Arpgs by their very nature have always been casual. ALWAYS. The very design of POE proves it's casual.

It's solo playable, you can pick up at any point, do a few runs, leave. Nothing more casual than that.

What the discussions around lab seem to be turning into are debates between hardcore and casual players.

This is not world of warcraft. POE is not an mmorpg and shouldn't adopt the elite level content gating of world of warcraft.

And you are not the only one that has invested heavily in this game.

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ewolow wrote:

I've been playing games literally since "Pong". No, it hasn't always been like that.

Irrelevant, PoE has always been like this from the start, it has always been a game that was meant to provide a hardcore experience.

You do not decide what arpg are intended to have or not, and you seem salty about people accessing more than you because they dedicate more of their time into the game ....
At this point, all you can do is just deal with it honestly.


If you made all of the content offer exactly the same seem to everybuild, you essentially completely remove all kind of build diversity and interest into the different areas of the game, it would be atrocious.

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ewolow wrote:

Chris recently stated that he realizes that ascension is no longer regarded as a reward, but rather an intrinsic part of everyone's build.

That recognition is at least a start.

They likely new that from the very moment they started designing it, even before the decided to couple of with a labyrinth.
Do you think that it changes anything ? Because it really doesn't imho.

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ewelow wrote:

It's solo playable, you can pick up at any point, do a few runs, leave. Nothing more casual than that.

Same for most mmos, same for .......... wait, any game that has a solo mode.
Can you stop with such fallacious argument please ?

There already is part of the content that only <1% of the playerbase every see, it alwas is like this and it has always been like this from the very start, how hard is that to understand ??
And lab isn't one of those things, by the way.

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Fruz wrote:

Irrelevant, PoE has always been like this from the start, it has always been a game that was meant to provide a hardcore experience.

According to whom? What metric, what standard? All we have here is your say so. Did you ever play D2/LOD? (Which is the model and metric for this game) I cannot imagine anyone calling d2 play to level 100 "Hardcore".

Shadowbane, lineage 2. THAT is hardcore. IMO. Getting to max level in L2 was perhaps the most brutal leveling I've ever seen. I didn't play any final fantasy but I heard that has a pretty hardcore grind too.

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Fruz wrote:

You do not decide what arpg are intended to have or not, and you seem salty about people accessing more than you because they dedicate more of their time into the game ....
At this point, all you can do is just deal with it honestly.

Why do I not get a say in the game? Who are you to say who's opinion is more valuable than anyone elses? Your opinion is noted, but that's what it is: Opinion.

And no, I can voice my opposition just like anyone else. If I don't like how the game goes I will vote with my wallet.

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Fruz wrote:

If you made all of the content offer exactly the same seem to everybuild, you essentially completely remove all kind of build diversity and interest into the different areas of the game, it would be atrocious.

This is why there is variance and mods to maps/zones. It's one thing to have counters and benefits to clearing an area, that's a completely different thing than having *required* content gated to only specific builds. From what I read, this is most certainly not an intention of Chris and the dev team.

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Fruz wrote:

They likely new that from the very moment they started designing it, even before the decided to couple of with a labyrinth.
Do you think that it changes anything ? Because it really doesn't imho.

Maybe, but it's also recognition that the implementation has perhaps had unintended consequences.

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mezmery wrote:

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ewolow wrote:

Lab can take 45 minutes to an hour, and that's if you don't die, look for chests/keys and Argus.

uberlab run takes between 4.5 min and 15 min(2 silver chest, intricate+curious)
git gud

Insertion with a bit of reality, the median on the endgame labyrinth ladder right now is 17 minutes 33 seconds.

The hardcore-ness of PoE is an outdated propaganda. Taking into account the game evolution, PoE stopped being hardcore since the end of 2013.

While the initial intentions and efforts for a HC environment are true, and also backed up by official statements as approval, game "casualized" on the go, and there isn't even a single announcement to confirm the HC game direction, for years.

Speaking in general, nowadays PoE is casual as fuck, and that's intentional, the more successful marketing strategy. It's just much more complicated than other games in the genre, but the HC tag isn't there.

About the lab - it could be considered HC, being a variation of a rogue dungeon. Once fucking again: the major problem with the lab is its implementation, but not its nature. The arcade elements prevailing is another issue.

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Turtledove wrote:

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mezmery wrote:

"

ewolow wrote:

Lab can take 45 minutes to an hour, and that's if you don't die, look for chests/keys and Argus.

uberlab run takes between 4.5 min and 15 min(2 silver chest, intricate+curious)
git gud

Insertion with a bit of reality, the median on the endgame labyrinth ladder right now is 17 minutes 33 seconds.

you are so ignorant, that you dont even get concept of "layout"

A quick little review of the conversation.

ewolow makes the following very reasonable assertion (Proven by looking at labyrinth ladders.)

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ewolow wrote:

Lab can take 45 minutes to an hour, and that's if you don't die, look for chests/keys and Argus.

Mexmery counters with a really irrelevant assertion about fastest times on the labyrinth ladders. It is irrelevant because Ewolow is talking about single runs for ascendancy points and the fastest labyrinth ladder times are the fastest times for people doing multiple runs for farming labyrinth rather than single runs for ascendancy points.

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mezmery wrote:

uberlab run takes between 4.5 min and 15 min(2 silver chest, intricate+curious)
git gud

I try to politely point out what the current endgame labyrinth ladder times actually are at and he also point out that even within Mexmery's context he was still exaggerating the expected times.

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Turtledove wrote:

Insertion with a bit of reality, the median on the endgame labyrinth ladder right now is 17 minutes 33 seconds.

Then this launches Mezmery into a personal attack and brings up an irrelevant tangent about layouts.

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mezmery wrote:

you are so ignorant, that you dont even get concept of "layout"

If we're going to change the subject to layouts then my position is that having to go to something outside PoE to reference what the current layout is before doing a labyrinth run then there is something wrong with the labyrinth, at least labyrinth runs associated with ascendancy points rather than farming.

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Turtledove wrote:

If we're going to change the subject to layouts then my position is that having to go to something outside PoE to reference what the current layout is before doing a labyrinth run then there is something wrong with the labyrinth, at least labyrinth runs associated with ascendancy points rather than farming.

you go somewhere outside poe to find trading deals, so going outside poe for any other game reason is ok.

lab is one of the most profitable farm ingame vs time spent, second after breachlord gamble.

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Turtledove wrote:

Then this launches Mezmery into a personal attack and brings up an irrelevant tangent about layouts.

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mezmery wrote:

you are so ignorant, that you dont even get concept of "layout"

If we're going to change the subject to layouts then my position is that having to go to something outside PoE to reference what the current layout is before doing a labyrinth run then there is something wrong with the labyrinth, at least labyrinth runs associated with ascendancy points rather than farming.

What a stupid fucking claim. Do you reference shit outside the game to learn more about skill gem interaction or to look up this or that on the wiki?

If you don't then you play like shit or you don't play at all (this is the more likely case)


google is like anyones best friend, the fact that the community has people that share the information about the lab is a positive, not a negative for the game or design of said content. The same has been done for previous league mechanics, like tempest, warbands, ect.