[3.0] DreamScythe's Explosive Auto-Summoner

Is there a certain sweet spot for skeleton duration? I've just transitioned over to this build, and I've noticed a problem with the skeletons... sometimes if damage is taken in just the right way, you can end up with two skeleton spawn cycles out of phase (currently using 3 gems with 20%, 1 with 19%, and 1 with 16%, as using 4 20% and 1 19% caused the first to die before it could proc the second, and using a 48% less Less Duration gem).

This heightened cycle can be pretty much fatal, as it doubles the rate you're spawning your other minions as well, so unless you have absolutely godly regeneration (I'm sitting at 1.3k per second, working on bringing it up) you're going to tank quickly.

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CJRodgers wrote:

Is there a certain sweet spot for skeleton duration? I've just transitioned over to this build, and I've noticed a problem with the skeletons... sometimes if damage is taken in just the right way, you can end up with two skeleton spawn cycles out of phase (currently using 3 gems with 20%, 1 with 19%, and 1 with 16%, as using 4 20% and 1 19% caused the first to die before it could proc the second, and using a 48% less Less Duration gem).

This heightened cycle can be pretty much fatal, as it doubles the rate you're spawning your other minions as well, so unless you have absolutely godly regeneration (I'm sitting at 1.3k per second, working on bringing it up) you're going to tank quickly.

there isnt really a "sweet spot" for skeleton duration, it all depends on how much es you regen. 1.3k is extremely low though =/

As for the skeleton cycle, there will be spikes in damage taken from time to time, its because there is a 0.25s cd on cwdt, but depending on the jewel/gem setup, the skeletons last 0.4s - 1s before expiring. There isnt much that can be done other than obtaining more regen.

I am sitting higher than 3k regen using non legacy shav ring, and there is definitely room for more.


Also to answer another question that was previously asked, Sometimes taking damage can interupt the skeleton loop (whether from a monster or from detonating minions). While this doesnt really happen often, it's important to get that essence mod weapon in your offhand to return start the loop again safely.

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DreamScythe wrote:

there isnt really a "sweet spot" for skeleton duration, it all depends on how much es you regen. 1.3k is extremely low though =/

As for the skeleton cycle, there will be spikes in damage taken from time to time, its because there is a 0.25s cd on cwdt, but depending on the jewel/gem setup, the skeletons last 0.4s - 1s before expiring. There isnt much that can be done other than obtaining more regen.

Yeah, I've noticed that myself... I simply don't have the cash on hand to shell out for a Shav's ring, legacy or not. I'm working at getting more regeneration and more max ES out of this, but for now keeping skeleton duration at 0.48 seconds to prevent full doubling cycles.

Thanks for the response though! Good to know the ballpark for your effective energy shield regen, definitely helps to compare with mine and set a goal.

Im going with 5 jewels and like 2,2K regeneration. My skel duration is 0.51
Build worked too when I was like 1,8 regen, the cycle was fine.
Be aware also if you have vulnerability or shocked ground maps, because that can affect I think the damage you take and you can commit suicide if you are not careful.

Less than that and I also think you will have some problems.

I'm having trouble finding where that massive >3k per second ES regen is coming from... I'm 7.35% lower from gear (don't have the 3% shav's revelation or the 2% boot enchants, and only lvl 17 vitality) counting the 40% 'more' from beast fur shawl, and my overall regen is 1.5k now compared to 9.5k ES. I can't wrap my head around greater than 3k per second with room to grow with the items and tree you've got listed... by my math I'm still missing around 5% regenerated per second if I'm comparing 3k (not even going to assume higher amounts like 3.3k) per second against 11k ES (since last video showed around 10.4k total, if memory serves).

Is there anything that's missing? The only thing I can think of is you've pushed your total ES a few thousand points higher. Wracking my head over what I must be missing, because even with the added regen from the boot enchants and shav's ring, I'd only be putting out ~2.2k regen (like Valmar's).

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CJRodgers wrote:

I'm having trouble finding where that massive >3k per second ES regen is coming from... I'm 7.35% lower from gear (don't have the 3% shav's revelation or the 2% boot enchants, and only lvl 17 vitality) counting the 40% 'more' from beast fur shawl, and my overall regen is 1.5k now compared to 9.5k ES. I can't wrap my head around greater than 3k per second with room to grow with the items and tree you've got listed... by my math I'm still missing around 5% regenerated per second if I'm comparing 3k (not even going to assume higher amounts like 3.3k) per second against 11k ES (since last video showed around 10.4k total, if memory serves).

Is there anything that's missing? The only thing I can think of is you've pushed your total ES a few thousand points higher. Wracking my head over what I must be missing, because even with the added regen from the boot enchants and shav's ring, I'd only be putting out ~2.2k regen (like Valmar's).

Here is a breakdown of the regen:


Life regeneration from gear:

2% - amulet
3% - shavs ring
2% - boot enchant
2% - belt

Total from gear: 9%

Skill Tree
9.9% regen

Vitality Aura:
1.5% regen

total regeneration = 20.4%
9 + 9.9 + 1.5 = 20.4%


if you have 10k es, then that is equivalent to 2040 regen per second.

Multiply that by the 40% more from beast fur (2040 x 1.4) = 2856 regen.

I have about 10,900 es, so my regen is even higher.

hi
i would like to mention that this build seems brilliant to me.
as im a commited theorycrafter I just have a problem with spectres being the 6L. spectre's HP are a blackbox... we don't know their numbers and sometimes there are spectres with low hp sometimes with high hp...
before i saw you build i came up with a zombie-explosion igniter (utilizing montreguls grasp, no surprise). a 6L zombie explosion setup will deal in my case (with -60% curse effectiveness, 30% res [atziri bosses setup], shock, elemental overload, tree+gear)~2M DPS with ignite. zombies at 20/20 having 9600+(1*2,90) HP (yes i can gather a total of 290% inc minion life; build it with Guardian - not necromancer)

this means my zombies will have 37400 HP; how realistic is it that spectres can meet same hp values?

so what i really like from you is that you fix the clunkiness of Minion Instability builds by autocasting the minions. did you ever try out casting spells via the loop and selfcast the 6L Minions for concentrated dmg boost? thinking about doing this option.

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airparisderjesus wrote:

hi
i would like to mention that this build seems brilliant to me.
as im a commited theorycrafter I just have a problem with spectres being the 6L. spectre's HP are a blackbox... we don't know their numbers and sometimes there are spectres with low hp sometimes with high hp...
before i saw you build i came up with a zombie-explosion igniter (utilizing montreguls grasp, no surprise). a 6L zombie explosion setup will deal in my case (with -60% curse effectiveness, 30% res [atziri bosses setup], shock, elemental overload, tree+gear)~2M DPS with ignite. zombies at 20/20 having 9600+(1*2,90) HP (yes i can gather a total of 290% inc minion life; build it with Guardian - not necromancer)

this means my zombies will have 37400 HP; how realistic is it that spectres can meet same hp values?

so what i really like from you is that you fix the clunkiness of Minion Instability builds by autocasting the minions. did you ever try out casting spells via the loop and selfcast the 6L Minions for concentrated dmg boost? thinking about doing this option.

Hey mate!

I'd like to address your comments as best as possible.

1) zombies vs spectres - The nice thing about spectres is that they can be cast every 2 skeleton since they only need a level 10 cwdt gem. Raise zombie pretty much requires a level 20 as their hp scales dramatically at higher levels that would mean roughly 5 skeleton cycles.

Spectres do actually have decent hp as long as you are the necromancer. Obviously in lower tier maps this is not the case. Going with t13 maps for example, low hp monsters have around 10k hp.with 213% increased spectre minion hp and a 0.9 multiplier from having lower level gem, that puts it just under 30k hp.

2) Mon'tregul's grasp is great for providing extra hp, but the one issue I have with it is that anything that is killed by a zombie or MI gets destroyed (no extra corpses)

3) we dont have enough mana to selfcast a 6l, and to be honest It feels much better letting the cwdt do all the work. For bosses, just swap in the conc effect instead of AoE.

It is possible to cast spells such as convocate/ desecrate as they have a low mana cost. That would require you to have %damage taken gained as mana on one piece of your gear.

To sum it up,

Zombies have a flat hp - you know exactly what it is, whereas spectres vary but can achieve similar values with far less investment. Spectres are also reduced by a less damage multipler of 34% from the level 10 cwdt gem. However that being said, the rate of summoning spectres is 2.5 x as often as a level 20 zombie, which means you will clear maps much quicker.

The only time you will notice a difference is on bosses, which as you may have seen is already pretty decent with spectres.

This build guide was just featured in the Weekly Build Showcase series:

https://redd.it/679w4d

Thank you again for participating, and well done on the build guide, it was a genuine pleasure to showcase :)

I tried something similar back in the perandus league, and I think I was maybee the first one trying to build around this belt ^^

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1638242/page/1

I felt the heartbound loop beeing too clunky to really play around, as I was rellying on block and life on block to survive.

But as you said, with spectres you only need a lvl 10 CWDT. Sad thing, you do need a high level desecrate to raise good spectres.

Did you knew that every linked gems to your zombies apply to the montegrul's explosion aswell ? Pretty fun to build around. Sadly, coulden't manage to make it really work.


PS : found a way to improve your build. Have you tried the wise oak & vessel of vinktar ?