[R.I.P.] life Mjolner done right by Rico - Juggernaut version - R.I.P. thx to "balancing" policy
" If you dont have any cdr gear, you need maximum 3 aps for cyclone. If you have cdr gear with at least 15%, you need maximum 3.75 aps for cyclone. Do not exceed said maximum cyclone aps values. GGG changed displayed aps decimal to just "1" instead of 2... Rico said 2.9 to be sure you do not exceed critical aps and dont see it due to misleading round off... (PoB shows aps with 2 decimals) Edit: I used culling support instead of faster attacks. That is why my cyclone aps is 3.5.(7 discharges per second) With appropriate lv. faster attacks support i can hit 3.75 cyclone aps (7.5 discharges per second). However culling strike means more dps compared to extra 0.5 discharge... Last edited by mutiv on Dec 11, 2018, 11:47:27 AM
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What does the new tree look like now for 3.5 assuming I still want to go cyclone over molten strike? I loved this build the last time I played it but I'm not sure what to do at this point.
IGN: SacrificeToTheDesyncGod
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Just to be on the same page... we drop arc because it is unlikely to reach 6 aps with cyclone right?
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" Well I don't want to invest the time and currency if it isn't. So "just try it" isn't a viable choice. I messaged I believe it was a lvl 91 moljner jug on the ladder, and he told me the dps was lacking and not to roll it. My goals are a fun tanky build that can clear all game content efficiently. I guess I'm debating between this and RF Jugg. Last edited by dingleberryman on Dec 11, 2018, 2:49:31 PM
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" hmm but it's still accurate to within 1 decimal, and tooltip attack time is a factor isn't it? So if you start losing efficiency after 3.333 aps, 3.2 shouldn't be able to be in that range at all regardless of how it is rounded and attack time is divided in half too right? so attack time of 0.31 on the tooltip should always be at least slightly above the 0.15 second cd of mjolner like ~0.155 and be relatively safe. Even if attack time was also rounded up and was actually 0.305 which is the lowest number I can think of that would show up at 0.31, that should still be 0.152 secs between cyclone attacks if you divide it by two so I just don't understand why we forego so much attack speed just due because we only have one decimal unless that decimal we do have and the attack time we are given are both incorrect... tldr 2.9 seems excessively conservative even assuming one decimal of inaccuracy, since we're only trying to avoid going above "3.333..." aps. 3.36 or any other number won't round down to 3.2 aps ever unless PoE math works differently than actual math. Without CDR, as far as I can tell, 0.31s attack time on tooltip is the magic safe number, regardless of rounding. The only reason to go slower is because it's hard to reach and culling strike is more dps. Maybe the displayed numbers are all wrong though, even rounding aside though. I don't know enough about cyclone mechanics, I'm just assuming the delay between each hit is equal. Last edited by Gutterflower on Dec 11, 2018, 8:11:38 PM
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My bad. I was thinking about tooltip h/o values but yes if we include Indeniable temp effect (increased accuracy after each crit and accuracy in juggs ways is also attack speed) and refer to cyclone aps as "with everything up" than we have:
Max 3.3 (safe 3.2) for no cdr gear and 6.5 Discharges /s Max 3.8 (safe 3.7) for a 15% cdr and 7.5 discharges /s Max 4 (safe 3.9) for a 20% cdr and 8 Discharges /s This is with Diacharge only and no Arc. For Arc + Diacharge one must reach double of those values. Latest guides: 3.11 Loki's Rainbownuke: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2904155 3.7 CI CoC Discharge: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2605608 3.7 Juggernaut life Mjolner: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1846362 Last edited by RicoKGB on Dec 12, 2018, 2:55:38 AM
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" So what happens if I go over those values? Do I somehow lose damage? Or is it simply a waste of attack speed? So if I have 3.4 aps in example one, it basically just means that I should relocate attack speed, since I've got too much and could use the passive points for example on more spell damage nodes or something like that. Basically I just wanna know if going above the "safe" value will reduce my damage or if it's simply ineffective. Last edited by Krytos12 on Dec 12, 2018, 9:00:37 AM
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It depends how much over you are, the effectiveness goes up and down like a wave in theory.
like if you're really close but on the other side of the limit, like say you're doing a hit every 0.14s and the cooldown is 0.15, what's going to happen is that you're going to effectively lose a full cast per hit since you'll be hitting 0.01s before the cooldown is finished, but you then have to wait 0.14s for your next hit, so the skill would have been off cooldown for around 0.13s which is time wasted. You'll end up fluctuating around 0.15 - 0.28s per cast since you keep hitting whilst your stuff is on cooldown. On the other side, if you're slightly lower, with a hit every 0.16s, you're guaranteed a cast every 0.16s If you're going to have an attack speed over those values given, you really need to be as close to a multiple as possible, so if 3.5 attacks per second is the most efficient, then 7 should be just as efficient, anything in-between loses you damage. edit: here's a visual off reddit for the poet's pen with a single spell (cooldown of 250ms so ~4aps most efficient with no cdr) which shows how the casts per second change with attacks per second https://i.imgur.com/oi19AWR.png same theory applies here Edit 2: this is the chart for 2 spells in a poets pen, again, Mjolner should work the same way, it looks like if you're going to go slightly over the optimal attack speed, you're probably better off putting a second spell in instead of a support - https://i.imgur.com/wenJZZt.png Last edited by Carrmatt93 on Dec 12, 2018, 10:31:34 AM
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guys what about taking unstoppable node instead of unyielding? not worth it?
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That's a really great explanation. Makes a lot of sense. Thanks Carrmatt!
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