Donald Trump and US politics

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The weirdest part is that when the investigation has concluded and all of the Trumplets' heroes are locked up in prison, they will still be here calling out OBAMA AND HILLARY!

But when the investigation concludes that nothing happened, will you still be in full "muh Russia" mode?

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You need to get yourself up to date :D

Since Manafort was a nothingburger, everyone clutches to that Papadopoulos kid. Ask yourself this: if Papadopoulos hadn't lied to the FBI, would he still be in trouble?

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DalaiLama wrote:

The Democrats' Resist anything Trump does mindset (even if it was something they supported before, such as Neil Gorsuch who was elevated to the circuit courts by a unanimous vote, but faced a filibuster and was voted against by 45).

The Democrats tried over and over to be reasonable and compromise during Obama's presidency to no avail. Republicans were consistently evil, petty, and completely unwilling to compromise. They were fine taking ground, but giving it? Not once. Republicans were branded "the party of no" for a reason. The Gorsuch vote is a perfect example of this. Democrats were against Gorsuch because it was a stolen seat. Garland should have been there already.

Obama's presidency was all about extending the olive branch, but "the party of no" is not one that can reasonably and rationally be compromised with. Constantly expecting Democrats to be the better people (because they quite literally are) who rise above the pettiness of Republicans leads to nonsense like the situation we're in today. If you want Democrats to stop doing things like voting against appointees to stolen seats, make Republicans stop being the most rancid sacks of shit ever to disgrace this country with their presence.

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faerwin wrote:

Still, I do agree that both camps should at LEAST work together on the stuff they agree on.

That's practically nothing at this point. Republicans are an opposition party. They stand for everything Democrats are against in order to pick up irrational, single-issue voting morons. There's no rational reason to be a party who denies clear and obvious science, but if Democrats accept it? Well, looks like climate change is a hoax, then.

Even with issues the parties agree on, their solutions are vastly different. Much of this is down to the ease with which conservatives latch onto racist ideas and deny facts that are in any way negative for them. Both parties are against terrorism. Democrats go with the rational "we should stop terrorists" approach. Republicans irrationally target all members of an ethnicity or religion instead. There's no compromise to be had with bigots. Unlike John Kelly, who apparently believes some black Americans being given forty acres and a mule while others are given a lifetime of brutal slavery is a reasonable compromise, decent human beings will not compromise with bigotry and racism.

Republicans are the same portion of the population who have been dragging society back forever. Compromising with them is irrational. If someone wants to beat you, and you want them not to, what compromise can you reach that wouldn't still be terrible? Democrats have watched Republicans beat the shit out of America non-stop for far too long. It's a good thing that they've finally stopped capitulating.

Some free cognitive dissonance:

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CanHasPants wrote:

I don’t think it’s impotent to subject one’s beliefs to the scrutiny of his peers. It is an opportunity to evaluate the rightness of your beliefs, and if capable of intellectual honesty, improve them.

Honestly, I believe we need more political discourse among peers, not less. That it is a social faux pas is likely directly because of my very first sentence. A nice little product of social engineering that keeps us divided. It is as if we are all locked in solitary confinement, able to pass notes to one another, but unwilling to discuss how to escape. When only talking heads are allowed to discuss politics, they alone are granted agency to write the narrative (to be the wardens of our isolation). The only way to break free of that narrative is to be open with one another and not pass judgment.

Holy shit, liberals aren't actually extinct.

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鬼殺し wrote:

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ChanBalam wrote:

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鬼殺し wrote:

You're not my peers. We're from completely different worlds. Irreconcilably different right now. Just the way it is.

And I've tried dialogue. Many times. Back when I somehow forgot you're not my peers.

Exactly.

And to be fair, all we of the opposing side care about is getting rid of Trump by pretty much any means necessary or possible. This is why it's irreconcilable for now. And Trump made it this way because he created this dichotomy. Forced everyone to choose him or to choose not-him. There is no middle ground and as someone who has always sought the middle ground as the foundation of compromise, I am crushed that this is the truth of it all. No middle ground, and so no compromise. This is Trump rhetoric. It is also, far from incidentally, bully rhetoric. There is winning and there is losing and there is nothing else. And one must win. Counterpunch every attack. Insult whoever you feel has insulted you, tenfold. Without exception.

Oh for fuck's sake, stop pretending. How is it that Trump forces you to choose him or not-him on every issue? How can anyone force that? You can be for Trump's immigration policy while being against his Afghanistan strategy, or vice versa. You can care deeply about issues Trump has scarcely addressed, like the Federal Reserve or fracking.

"I don’t think it makes sense to say, ‘No, we’re not gonna work in any way in any form with the Trump administration’... If he is prepared to work with us... yes, let’s work together."
— Bernie Sanders, Jan 23 2017

You are choosing to adopt a hardline partisan position, free from coercion; take responsibility. You are the one who refuses to acknowledge your political opponents as human. You realize you're roughly tied with the worst of the 4chan bigots on that score, don't you? You realize the anti-semites have their own bullshit conspiracy theories about how (((they))) force white people to be bigots if the whites are to survive? You are blaming Trump to deflect your own guilt.

I know you're used to cuckservatives, but you can't blame Trump for your surprise merely because he doesn't immediately bend over and spread 'em in response to every Leftist public shaming. It's like a boxer bring traumatized that his opponent had the gall to actually hit him back (and claim he is a subhuman evil as a result). Man up, will ya?

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DalaiLama wrote:

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faerwin wrote:

I wonder how much of the opposition can be attributed to the behavior of republicans during the Obama administration.

If the Political Resist-O-Meter was set at 40-50% before Obama, the GOP moved it to at least 75-80%. So, a HUGE chunk was GOP, and naturally the Democrats are playing the same game.

The GOP blocking Obama from filling the Scalia vacancy, and Obama circumventing Congress via Executive Order, were both tremendously bad precedents. All these so-called "woke" people acting as if extreme partisanship is a Trump exclusive... well, if you just woke up, don't you think you might want to fill yourself in on what went down while you were sleeping? People need to understand that we did not arrive here through some completely random, sudden, and artificial process, but gradually, predictably, organically. (In their pre-election coverage, both Tarl Warwick and H.A. Goodman predicted it, with well-reasoned arguments.) If it seems sudden for you, well, that just shows you weren't paying attention.

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The weirdest part is that when the investigation has concluded and all of the Trumplets' heroes are locked up in prison, they will still be here calling out OBAMA AND HILLARY!

Um, I'm a little dubious about Obama, but definitely Clinton and some other Obama administration officials, yeah. Lock them up. As far as Obama goes, I think we can prove rather convincingly that he lied regarding Clinton's private email address, but I'm not completely sure that constitutes a crime; he also is on record advocating some scary Internet censorship policies, but again, probably not criminal. Hillary Rodham Felon is the main target, and it's unclear how much Obama knew.

I mean, have you considered the possibility that both political parties are pretty fucking corrupt?

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Nazis and white nationalists are ALL criminals.

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The coward who killed the eight people in NYC would have done the same regardless of his faith.

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The coward who killed the eight people in NYC would have done the same regardless of his faith.

That's just not true. Young Muslim men are being radicalized just like young white men are in America. His faith was an integral part of the process that turned him into a killer, just as their race is an integral part of what turned so many white people in America into insane right-wing zealots with truly monstrous beliefs. Some people value some aspect of themselves far more than they should, which allows their beliefs to be warped into something terrible.

The white supremacists who post in this thread wouldn't be white supremacists if they weren't white. That doesn't say anything bad about white people, just as the Muslims being radicalized doesn't say anything bad about Muslims (though there are plenty of bad things to say about the Abrahamic religions, which are absolutely fucking repulsive). It sure as hell says something bad about human psychology, though.

It's too easy for us to be turned against each other with lies and propaganda. The mentally weak, like this person or the assholes chanting "build the wall" or "Jews will not replace us," are good examples of this. Trump rode in on a tide of the same mindless hate and fear that turned that man into a killer.

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Jennik wrote:

That's just not true. Young Muslim men are being radicalized just like young white men are in America.

Please don t play the gender card on that.There are muslims women blowing up themselves everyday and there is white nazis female supporters.

Also What do you call "white nationalist" on this forum? You mean Trump supporters? What about black trump supporters?

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Nazis and white nationalists are ALL criminals. Not all Muslims are criminals. Big difference.

What about american nationalists from other ethnicity? What about those Latinos/black americans nationalists who think theUSA must be first?