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It's a rather tasty start!
Still reading the indictment, but except for 2 recent (2016 and 2017) statements of denial of what he was doing from 2006-2014, it looks primarily about tax evasion, and the foreign agent stuff is 2014 or prior, before he was working for Trump.
Someone paying $3 million in cash for a house should have been a red flag. I haven't had a chance to look at the reports that Manafort was supposedly investigated back in 2013, and why charges weren't filed then.
Here's a fun page. (read the small print)
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Posted byDeletedon Oct 30, 2017, 11:45:49 AM
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You can have some healthcare that's partially funded by donations. I didn't argue against that. Replying as if I'm saying "donations will never provide anyone healthcare" is disingenuous. My point is that you can't have sufficient healthcare that's funded by donations.
Many poor people in that libertarian utopia will be unable to receive necessary healthcare. The healthcare disparity between the rich and the poor will grow even worse.
Someone saying "let's crowdfund a hospital" is completely unaware of the actual problems with our healthcare system. A crowdfunded hospital that poor people still have to pay to use misses the mark completely. It literally does nothing to solve the problem.
America's problem is not people lacking access to hospitals. It's people lacking access to healthcare. Until we fix the wealth disparity problem, we need to start treating healthcare as a right instead of a privilege.
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Posted byJennikon Oct 30, 2017, 11:47:12 AM
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It's a rather tasty start!
Still reading the indictment, but except for 2 recent (2016 and 2017) statements of denial of what he was doing from 2006-2014, it looks primarily about tax evasion, and the foreign agent stuff is 2014 or prior, before he was working for Trump.
Someone paying $3 million in cash for a house should have been a red flag. I haven't had a chance to look at the reports that Manafort was supposedly investigated back in 2013, and why charges weren't filed then.
Here's a fun page. (read the small print)
I was just reading through your link on Papadopoulus, as I hadn't seen the raw details before.
PoE Origins - Piety's story http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2081910
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Posted byDalaiLamaon Oct 30, 2017, 11:54:33 AM
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You can have some healthcare that's partially funded by donations. I didn't argue against that. Replying as if I'm saying "donations will never provide anyone healthcare" is disingenuous. My point is that you can't have sufficient healthcare that's funded by donations.
Many poor people in that libertarian utopia will be unable to receive necessary healthcare. The healthcare disparity between the rich and the poor will grow even worse.
Someone saying "let's crowdfund a hospital" is completely unaware of the actual problems with our healthcare system. A crowdfunded hospital that poor people still have to pay to use misses the mark completely. It literally does nothing to solve the problem.
America's problem is not people lacking access to hospitals. It's people lacking access to healthcare. Until we fix the wealth disparity problem, we need to start treating healthcare as a right instead of a privilege.
Who has been talking about a "libertarian utopia"? Sounds like you are talking with a ghost poster.
Faerwin just mentioned she would like to start a hospital with charity, but said it is only a pipe dream, then a few of us pointed out that it is possible, and has been for centuries.
Certainly the Catholic Church has been providing charitable healthcare for centuries, about 2000 years, so far.
Last edited by Kamchatka on Oct 30, 2017, 12:04:30 PM
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Posted byKamchatkaon Oct 30, 2017, 11:58:27 AM
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You can have some healthcare that's partially funded by donations. I didn't argue against that. Replying as if I'm saying "donations will never provide anyone healthcare" is disingenuous. My point is that you can't have sufficient healthcare that's funded by donations.
Many poor people in that libertarian utopia will be unable to receive necessary healthcare. The healthcare disparity between the rich and the poor will grow even worse.
Someone saying "let's crowdfund a hospital" is completely unaware of the actual problems with our healthcare system. A crowdfunded hospital that poor people still have to pay to use misses the mark completely. It literally does nothing to solve the problem.
America's problem is not people lacking access to hospitals. It's people lacking access to healthcare. Until we fix the wealth disparity problem, we need to start treating healthcare as a right instead of a privilege.
Who has been talking about a "libertarian utopia"? Sounds like you are talking with a ghost poster.
Faerwin just mentioned she would like to start a hospital with charity, but said it is only a pipe dream, then a few of us pointed out that it is possible, and has been for centuries.
Certainly the Catholic Church has been providing charitable healthcare for centuries, about 2000 years, so far.
People misinterpreted. I don't think it meant charity hospital is impossible but the person in question funding a charity hospital is a pipe dream.
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Posted bydeathfloweron Oct 30, 2017, 12:08:58 PM
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You can have some healthcare that's partially funded by donations. I didn't argue against that. Replying as if I'm saying "donations will never provide anyone healthcare" is disingenuous. My point is that you can't have sufficient healthcare that's funded by donations.
Many poor people in that libertarian utopia will be unable to receive necessary healthcare. The healthcare disparity between the rich and the poor will grow even worse.
Someone saying "let's crowdfund a hospital" is completely unaware of the actual problems with our healthcare system. A crowdfunded hospital that poor people still have to pay to use misses the mark completely. It literally does nothing to solve the problem.
America's problem is not people lacking access to hospitals. It's people lacking access to healthcare. Until we fix the wealth disparity problem, we need to start treating healthcare as a right instead of a privilege.
The problem is essentially one of cost, not how much the average person makes. There was a time when the average person could pay for their medical bills without worrying about a huge financial impact. What Happened?
High taxes were the proverbial butterfly wing flap that caused the hurricane. There was a restructuring of taxes so that giving healthcare plans allowed companies to pay people more (pay plus health benefits) and without the employees getting heavily taxed for it. As this became more popular, health insurance became more common. Initially, the costs to the companies weren't outlandish, and the costs of healthcare itself was about the same.
With that flood of potential money sitting in all those health care accounts came greed. Everybody and their cat wanted a piece of those billions, and the insurance companies found that they could skim off a relatively large chunk for themselves. With the flood of money came an investment boom to develop newer medical care, with expected high profits. While a lot was improved, the cost rise was disproportional. Costs shot through the roof, past the clouds and into space.
The problem was clear 20+ years ago. The government did nothing to solve the cost problem. They still haven't even looked at that aspect. That is where the solution is. People shouldn't need health insurance be able to pay for everyday health care.
The costs of 'catastrophic' health care need to be drastically cut. If no one looks at all the details, we will not see this problem being fixed.
PoE Origins - Piety's story http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2081910
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Posted byDalaiLamaon Oct 30, 2017, 12:11:34 PM
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People misinterpreted. I don't think it meant charity hospital is impossible but the person in question funding a charity hospital is a pipe dream.
I understand that, but I do not get where all the crazy "libertarian utopia" talk is coming from?
What does discussing starting a charity hospital, or discussing the charity of the Catholic Church have to do with a "libertarian utopia".
Any type of society can have charity, it is not like you have to be a libertarian to support charity. Seems off the wall crazy to me.
Last edited by Kamchatka on Oct 30, 2017, 12:17:16 PM
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Posted byKamchatkaon Oct 30, 2017, 12:15:28 PM
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The problem is essentially one of cost, not how much the average person makes. There was a time when the average person could pay for their medical bills without worrying about a huge financial impact. What Happened?
High taxes were the proverbial butterfly wing flap that caused the hurricane. There was a restructuring of taxes so that giving healthcare plans allowed companies to pay people more (pay plus health benefits) and without the employees getting heavily taxed for it. As this became more popular, health insurance became more common. Initially, the costs to the companies weren't outlandish, and the costs of healthcare itself was about the same.
With that flood of potential money sitting in all those health care accounts came greed. Everybody and their cat wanted a piece of those billions, and the insurance companies found that they could skim off a relatively large chunk for themselves. With the flood of money came an investment boom to develop newer medical care, with expected high profits. While a lot was improved, the cost rise was disproportional. Costs shot through the roof, past the clouds and into space.
The problem was clear 20+ years ago. The government did nothing to solve the cost problem. They still haven't even looked at that aspect. That is where the solution is. People shouldn't need health insurance be able to pay for everyday health care.
The costs of 'catastrophic' health care need to be drastically cut. If no one looks at all the details, we will not see this problem being fixed.
You realize they can't fix it? How can you fix it with a dysfunctional government?
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Posted bydeathfloweron Oct 30, 2017, 12:40:20 PM
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1. You can have some healthcare that's partially funded by donations. I didn't argue against that. Replying as if I'm saying "donations will never provide anyone healthcare" is disingenuous. My point is that you can't have sufficient healthcare that's funded by donations.
Many poor people in that libertarian utopia will be unable to receive necessary healthcare. The healthcare disparity between the rich and the poor will grow even worse.
Someone saying "let's crowdfund a hospital" is completely unaware of the actual problems with our healthcare system.
2. A crowdfunded hospital that poor people still have to pay to use misses the mark completely. It literally does nothing to solve the problem.
America's problem is not people lacking access to hospitals. It's people lacking access to healthcare. Until we fix the wealth disparity problem, we need to start treating healthcare as a right instead of a privilege.
Numbers mine.
1 is mostly correct, although you're tossing the class warfare stuff in needlessly (but that's just your style). As I've said in this thread many times now, the problem with healthcare is pricing, not funding. It is correct that a crowdfunded hospital wouldn't work, because the costs associated with healthcare are so debilitating that not much could get done even with some seriously generous backers — that is, you can't have sufficient healthcare funded by donations.
2, however, completely missed the mark. You do understand that a "free" service is only free from a narrow perspective, and that when perspective widens to encompass the whole there's no such thing as free, don't you? You can't magically handwave away costs and thus price things at zero. Regardless of whether funding comes from donations, individual patients, private insurance or the government, changing funding doesn't solve the pricing problem.
Dalai seems to understand the core problem, unlike you. I'm not sure he does, but his history lesson isn't bad.
When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted. Last edited by ScrotieMcB on Oct 30, 2017, 1:37:04 PM
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Posted byScrotieMcBon Oct 30, 2017, 1:34:29 PM
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You realize they can't fix it? How can you fix it with a dysfunctional government?
The original impetus (tax savings) aside, the government (for the most part) wasn't the source of the problem. The government doesn't need to fix the problem, the only thing they need to do is allow/order a discreet review of the accounting at various points of the health care chain. Once the cost factors and problems are known, solutions can be found and implemented. Without government effort, the improvements will come gradually. Government can make big changes occur quickly, but with their incompetence, they are as likely to do damage as they are to help.
We just need good information.
PoE Origins - Piety's story http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2081910
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Posted byDalaiLamaon Oct 30, 2017, 1:54:48 PM
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