We are seeing first hand why GGG needs to step in..

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Saltychipmunk wrote:

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鬼殺し wrote:

Oh, the sheer number of hours I spent trading in EC tunnel on eq1...and EVE, good lord...

But in an ARPG? Yeah, no.

Edit: I did play enough D3 on pc in the early days to know I saw the ah like a supermarket or Amazon.com rather than a haggling market where I felt the need to actually engage with sellers. I came to see PoE.trade the same way. That was when I realised GGG had failed to foster and nourish a true trading environment wherein people haggle and bargain.

to be fair that is really hard to do in an arg because fundamentally haggling and bartering is a time sink and arpgs are built around the whole loot and go vibe.. trading is actually supposed to be a minimal part of it

this is probably why on paper an ah was a decent idea for d3 as it theoretically minimized the need to waste time dealing with trade bs .


But with all things if you dont actually have any kind of quality assurance or monitoring it all goes to shit when some asshole or group of assholes decides to exploit it.

it happened in steam green light , it happened in d3 frankly i am impressed it has not been that massive an issue with poe until effectivly this league.. sure previous leagues have always had some group dominating the market

but from what i can tell they still have a few lines they wont cross (mostly) which kept the market from going total ham.


If nothing else it does make standard look more attractive when alot of us already have enough stuff so as to avoid most of this bullshit

People dominate every market in every league. It's mostly the same groups. Welcome to unregulated markets. People don't understand that in order to have a healthy and growing market, you have to have regulation. Economics 101. Zero regulation means some asshole is going to take advantage of the zero regulations and exploit others.

"

aldorus wrote:

Between 50% - 75% of my time spent "trading" I either wait for a response that never comes, or reading "in a lab, sorry", "in a rota, sorry", "in a map, wait a minute" (and never heard of egain), or silence (~in a breach).

Good, it means players are putting gameplay first, trading second. You should try it.

If "waiting" is what it takes for items to not be 100% accessible 100% of the time, so be it. Every item available 100% of the time with a press on a button or two, without any communication, is a dangerous thing. You may be viewing this just from your perspective; "Yay, I get to sell my items faster, and buy items faster". But as a whole, when every single player gets to sell and buy items on the fly, the game WILL change around this, and trade will become even more required than it is today.

YOU may not give a rats ass about this, as you (maybe) don't even TRY to find/make your own items, but there are A LOT of players that don't want to buy other peoples achievements to progress through the game.

Trade should be a supplement for efficiency, not a requirement.

Maybe if GGG would have never attracted such a casual playerbase in the first place we wouldn't be having these issues.


You know damn well they arent going to add an AH and you also know that GGG doesnt have the staff, nor will to police trade.

"

goetzjam wrote:

Maybe if GGG would have never attracted such a casual playerbase in the first place we wouldn't be having these issues.


You know damn well they arent going to add an AH and you also know that GGG doesnt have the staff, nor will to police trade.

Us casual hoarding n00bs should feel bad because there is no Auction House when xyz is just that, an unregulated AH not even implemented in the game - all this for an Online ARPG that touted "trade as a core aspect"... /s

I actually have a problem with the online requirements on an global scale, where I would just like to be able to buy an item from someone that plays in a different timezone with ease...

Xyz should be allowed to display an "available for trade" status, so people that want to trade in a timely manner should get that - AFK, DND status wouldn't have a reason to be available for trade as they would just lose everyone's time...

It would be nice to encourage bartering if that is the way that trade should work, even if we were required to use another 3rd party Android/iOS app to accept/deny offers...

"

goetzjam wrote:

Maybe if GGG would have never attracted such a casual playerbase in the first place we wouldn't be having these issues.


You know damn well they arent going to add an AH and you also know that GGG doesnt have the staff, nor will to police trade.

Right, because GGG should clearly only cater to hardcore players and not get more money for their hard earned work. Statements like these are why developers lose their shit and simply quit the industry, because entitled nerds think that they deserve everything and the developers should get nothing. Making games is a business first. Period.

"

allbusiness wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

Maybe if GGG would have never attracted such a casual playerbase in the first place we wouldn't be having these issues.


You know damn well they arent going to add an AH and you also know that GGG doesnt have the staff, nor will to police trade.

Right, because GGG should clearly only cater to hardcore players and not get more money for their hard earned work. Statements like these are why developers lose their shit and simply quit the industry, because entitled nerds think that they deserve everything and the developers should get nothing. Making games is a business first. Period.

Yeah they totally didn't make money back when they were more true to their original purposed design. Hell you were around back then, perhaps your lifestyle has changed so you can play less then before, idk.

I can tell you I didn't support this game in order for it to turn into a d3 clone and people here will deny it but there are less and less things that make this game unique or different from d3.


"us hardcore" players buy largeass supporter packs, its what enabled this game back in the day and while GGG has grown, it wasn't absolutely necessary to get to this point, especially if they aren't going to stay true to the principles and designs they "sold us" back in open beta....

"

Us casual hoarding n00bs should feel bad because there is no Auction House when xyz is just that, an unregulated AH not even implemented in the game - all this for an Online ARPG that touted "trade as a core aspect"... /s

Its a marketplace, again people call anything that is a system of trade as "AH", the trade system in this game works vastly different then those that have "AH".

And if you think GGG wants to regulate trade you are fucking insane.

"

goetzjam wrote:

"

allbusiness wrote:

"

goetzjam wrote:

Maybe if GGG would have never attracted such a casual playerbase in the first place we wouldn't be having these issues.


You know damn well they arent going to add an AH and you also know that GGG doesnt have the staff, nor will to police trade.

Right, because GGG should clearly only cater to hardcore players and not get more money for their hard earned work. Statements like these are why developers lose their shit and simply quit the industry, because entitled nerds think that they deserve everything and the developers should get nothing. Making games is a business first. Period.

Yeah they totally didn't make money back when they were more true to their original purposed design. Hell you were around back then, perhaps your lifestyle has changed so you can play less then before, idk.

I can tell you I didn't support this game in order for it to turn into a d3 clone and people here will deny it but there are less and less things that make this game unique or different from d3.


"us hardcore" players buy largeass supporter packs, its what enabled this game back in the day and while GGG has grown, it wasn't absolutely necessary to get to this point, especially if they aren't going to stay true to the principles and designs they "sold us" back in open beta....

"

Us casual hoarding n00bs should feel bad because there is no Auction House when xyz is just that, an unregulated AH not even implemented in the game - all this for an Online ARPG that touted "trade as a core aspect"... /s

Its a marketplace, again people call anything that is a system of trade as "AH", the trade system in this game works vastly different then those that have "AH".

And if you think GGG wants to regulate trade you are fucking insane.

In order for a game to grow, you need to get more money and more people involved. The idea that GGG should strictly cater to only hardcore players is absolutely asinine and stupid, and is a huge insult to Chris Wilson and the GGG team. I've criticized GGG about alot of shit, but I would never criticize GGG for wanting to make more money. It's a business first, and making the game more accessible and fun to more people has netted them more profit than ever.

You are simply being an absolute entitled, petulant, spoiled brat at this point if you seriously think that GGG should have only catered to hardcore players and remain small time. This is honestly the type of behavior that makes people want to vomit with fury. GGG has not 'sold' out. They made the game more accessible to the every day player, while also adding more higher tier gameplay for those who want to actually play the game all the way. There are numerous options for endgame including Shaper, Guardians, Uber Atziri, and Uber Lab.

Get off your fucking high horse thinking that game developers should only cater to you, and you alone. If you work in the real world, you know it costs money to develop games, it costs money to maintain this game, and it costs money to hire people to do all of that. The game has come this far because GGG grew their game, and improved upon it. Desync was fixed FINALLY after a huge stream of income that GGG never had before. Or do you think that was just merely a fucking coincidence?

"

goetzjam wrote:

"

allbusiness wrote:

"

goetzjam wrote:

Maybe if GGG would have never attracted such a casual playerbase in the first place we wouldn't be having these issues.


You know damn well they arent going to add an AH and you also know that GGG doesnt have the staff, nor will to police trade.

Right, because GGG should clearly only cater to hardcore players and not get more money for their hard earned work. Statements like these are why developers lose their shit and simply quit the industry, because entitled nerds think that they deserve everything and the developers should get nothing. Making games is a business first. Period.

Yeah they totally didn't make money back when they were more true to their original purposed design. Hell you were around back then, perhaps your lifestyle has changed so you can play less then before, idk.

I can tell you I didn't support this game in order for it to turn into a d3 clone and people here will deny it but there are less and less things that make this game unique or different from d3.


"us hardcore" players buy largeass supporter packs, its what enabled this game back in the day and while GGG has grown, it wasn't absolutely necessary to get to this point, especially if they aren't going to stay true to the principles and designs they "sold us" back in open beta....

"

Us casual hoarding n00bs should feel bad because there is no Auction House when xyz is just that, an unregulated AH not even implemented in the game - all this for an Online ARPG that touted "trade as a core aspect"... /s

Its a marketplace, again people call anything that is a system of trade as "AH", the trade system in this game works vastly different then those that have "AH".

And if you think GGG wants to regulate trade you are fucking insane.

No one should want PoE to turn into a clone of D3, and the focus on "let's make the game cater to the casual crowd" should have kept the game a LOT more difficult than it is right now...

A market place that gives you the access to all items, where a seller sets a target price and anyone can outbid the otter - that is what an Auction House is - it would be better if the bartering system would have been more interactive, but most of the time, one people wants to buy something out of another one people and the whole "auction" part = 0, that is why you have a buyout price on xyz, so people that both agree to no lose time "bartering" about it...

People that use trade should start using it more seriously, and there should at least be accountability as to minimise scamming, flipping and manipulating...

I don't like to use the bartering system, except as buying an occasional item now and then, and maybe in the future I'll sell something from my hoarded stuff to people instead of vendors, as the system just exacerbates the human nature of needing to profit, no matter what...

We as a community don't like to help others as much as we should, when was the last time that all those of you traders were willing to sell something for less than requested? The fear of flipping makes you think that you're no helping someone in need, but a flipper to profit...

It's a sad state, so the trade system should be improved and regulated (even by introducing more value via recipes and more currency sinks)...

"

Phrazz wrote:

Good, it means players are putting gameplay first, trading second. You should try it.

I don't feel entitled to tell others, how to spend their time ingame. Maybe you should try it?
I do not see any added value in wasting anybody's time, no matter how hard I try.

People that are AFK, DND and such should just not be indexed for trading. I see no reason, why I should whisper ten people and get "AFK" ten times, how does that help economy in any way is beyond me.

"

aldorus wrote:

"

Phrazz wrote:

Good, it means players are putting gameplay first, trading second. You should try it.

I don't feel entitled to tell others, how to spend their time ingame. Maybe you should try it?
I do not see any added value in wasting anybody's time, no matter how hard I try.

People that are AFK, DND and such should just not be indexed for trading. I see no reason, why I should whisper ten people and get "AFK" ten times, how does that help economy in any way is beyond me.

I don't feel entitled to tell you how to spend your time either. What I was hinting to, is that I believe it's better for the game as a whole if trading is viewed/valued only as a supplement for efficiency - and not "the thing to do". If you see more value in playing the trade game than to kill monsters; good for you. But I don't feel the game needs to tailor this need any further.