LAB is not fun

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raics wrote:

I find this somewhat contradicting, labyrinth is among the few things that don't really play into clear speed meta. Juggernaut, for instance isn't a very popular ascendancy otherwise but makes for a pretty good lab farmer, and if they shorten it they will also have to reduce the rewards so lab farming might not even be a thing anymore.

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What I meant by my reference to speed meta is that Ascendancy points support power creep and increase build capability to clear faster than ever before.

If Lab runs are made shorter, rewards can be reduced in proportion if frequency of trials that give offerings is also increased. This would lead to cheaper offerings and same loot to time ratio.

Lab farming is an alternative choice to other end-game activities such as mapping or farming Atziri. This is, however, different to a need to run Lab to get Ascendancy points. People's experience running Lab for just Ascendancy can be rather stressful due to not optimized builds and less experience. I want that experience to be made more pleasant. If Lab farming get a bit easier or less attractive, I have no issue with that.

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Baron01 wrote:

What I meant by my reference to speed meta is that Ascendancy points support power creep and increase build capability to clear faster than ever before.

Well, points are important regardless of their use, labyrinth doesn't really skew the meta one way or the other in its gate role and it has a place for slower builds as a farming ground, that's why I say it goes somewhat against current meta as a whole.

I'm not fully against streamlining it a bit, just removing gold doors might be a big enough move in that direction as many players find them annoying. However, I think the lab is a fairly good challenge for most build types, some find it a bit easier and some a bit harder but any solid build can do all four at some point as long as the player has a basic idea of what he's doing (except for vaal skill builds but those can easily switch to a a normal version of the skill instead).

Can the lab be frustrating? - YES. Especially if there is a lag causing death. But generally this requires skill, nothing more. Yesterday I died cause of the teleport thingy by last Izaro stage and he ported me into a saw which killed me too fast to be able to sustain. But hey, Ill try it again in two or three levels with more life and will be fine.

Should GGG change it? - NO.

But why not? - Cause Stone Cold Said So. JK, they shouldn't because it is challenging as it should be. Afterwards, after succeeding the Merc Lab, your Character receives a significant boost which is a perfect reward for the hazzle. PLUS you get nice loot on your way through the lab and afterwards by a random enchantment and Treasure Chests. Yes.

But they should change something here! - Oh Hell Yeah. Sometimes it is really a bit annoying if you aim for a specific enchantment to get it. I think, they should make it a bit easier to get good enchantments, may by removing enchantments from the list of enchantments which are not used by players or do not provide a significant boost in any way.

And that is all I got to say about that.

You can easily swap a vaal skill for the normal version? Good luck trying that with Vaal RF...

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FCK42 wrote:

You can easily swap a vaal skill for the normal version? Good luck trying that with Vaal RF...

Why not? Just slap flameblast on a totem and you're Izaro-ready.

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raics wrote:

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FCK42 wrote:

You can easily swap a vaal skill for the normal version? Good luck trying that with Vaal RF...

Why not? Just slap flameblast on a totem and you're Izaro-ready.

The thing is, vaal RF and normal RF are more or less polar opposites. Vaal RF needs life leech and vaal pact to survive and just causes one huge burst of damage, which leaves nothing but scorched remains of most enemies.
Normal RF needs life regen and fire resist in crazy amounts instead to burn everything close to it down, bit by bit.
The two of them are pretty much nothing alike.

I love the lab. It makes this game interesting and challenging.

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FCK42 wrote:

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raics wrote:

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FCK42 wrote:

You can easily swap a vaal skill for the normal version? Good luck trying that with Vaal RF...

Why not? Just slap flameblast on a totem and you're Izaro-ready.

The thing is, vaal RF and normal RF are more or less polar opposites. Vaal RF needs life leech and vaal pact to survive and just causes one huge burst of damage, which leaves nothing but scorched remains of most enemies.
Normal RF needs life regen and fire resist in crazy amounts instead to burn everything close to it down, bit by bit.
The two of them are pretty much nothing alike.

Well sure, I don't think anyone would be dense enough to even attempt that stunt :)

Should have said 'swap your vaal skill with anything compatible'.

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Nizreb915 wrote:

I love the lab. It makes this game interesting and challenging.

For ones opinion there always exists opposing one as well.

I find Labyrinth boring, tedious and annoying. I also find it challenging for all the wrong reasons.

This is not really about challenge. It is all about a fact you are forced to do it and the game intentionally makes your time spent there annoying by contraptions, monsters mechanics and its infamous "1-thing-go-wrong-you-are-out" approach.

Oh look another lab thread!

I'll say what I usually say then... The *actual* majority (contrary to what the He-Man-Lab-Haters around here would have you believe) of players do not give two shits about the lab. They don't necessary LOVE it but they also don't find it to be so cripplingly horrible that it is worth crying about it online. They run the labs. They get the INSANE rewards for doing so, because taking 15 minutes (max) to run the lab is SOOOOO worth it when you take into consideration the power you get from Ascending. The lab has been a part of the game for what... 9 months now? It isn't going anywhere... Learn how to do it quickly an efficiently and you will have a much better time.