LAB is not fun

"

Taganov wrote:

"

antilev2 wrote:

I love the labyrinth. I suggest GGG change the game so that we only get 1 ascendancy point per completion, necessitating 8 runs.

More lab please!

Your response to making lab optional, which wouldn't affect you at all, is to request that rewards are further gated so you can have 'more' of something that's already infinitely available? Amazing.

lab is already optional.

also i can't believe you took my post seriously.

"

Daiena wrote:

"

grubworm wrote:

Sorry thought GGG wanted to hear what the game players are thinking. I love the game. I love the changes the GGG has done to date. I just want GGG to know that lab is not funz.

Trust me,they couldn't care less about minority opinions.
Topics like these are as old as the lab it self,it's pointless,and no your feedback does not change,or mean anything at all.
They judge every aspect of the game by collecting data,if data would show that majority,or at least half of all the players end up skipping labs,then they'd rethink the concept,as it is right now,you like it or not but you sure as hell are running them.

While I agree with a notion that GGG bases their decision making on complex and complete data of player population running Lab, those data wont tell them how players feel about running Labyrinth.
GGG should be interested in player's experience and feeling, if for nothing else than to support their future development plans. Therefore, you are wrong to state that feedback on Lab or any other part of the game is pointless. It is not, it just wont sway GGG's position immediately.

I personally am in neutral relationship with Labyrinth. I recognize power that Ascendancy offers to my characters, therefore, I run it to get 6 and often 8 points. However, I will never step into Lab again unless I make dedicated Lab farmer, which last happened 2 leagues ago. This should be good enough feedback that Lab is a piece of content that is not very popular with me when other things I'm willing to run again and again and again. It is a shame GGG can not make Lab more enjoyable experience so that piece of content will be used more often.

Even though I hate the term "vocal minority" used by ggg, they are somewhat right in at least one point: mostly people who are dissatisfied with something voice their opinion. Also only a very small amount of the playerbase even uses the forum or the poe subreddit. We don't really know how a huge part of the community feels, though I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that all those players like the lab, I'd rather say that they neither like nor hate it, a neutral position.

"

FCK42 wrote:

We don't really know how a huge part of the community feels, though I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that all those players like the lab, I'd rather say that they neither like nor hate it, a neutral position.

Indeed, I did a small scale experiment once, asking a random 20 people in merciless Sarn and Highgate around a month into the new league how do they feel about the lab, under the guise of 'unofficial community poll' with five standard choices - like, somewhat like, neutral, somewhat dislike, dislike. The feedback was either positive or neutral by a large margin with only a few having either kind of negative opinion.

Sure, that's a bullshit sample size and it was softcore only, but at least it came from the right source, people actually playing the game. Doesn't prove anything but the vocal minority thing became a notch more plausible.

I love this game with a passion, but I think the labyrinth is the worst thing ever implemented in the game. If I'm not playing a 15% life regen build I want to pull my hair out. I hate all the time wasted and the frustration built up from every trap in trials and labyrinth so hard. I started playing only 1 or 2 characters per league since they implemented it. Very hard for me to say because I love this game a lot, but platforming has no place in ARPG's for me.

Also if they made the ascendancy points available elsewhere I'm 100% sure almost nobody would ever enter the place except those robots that forgot what fun is and only play for loot in the last room for the uber lab. Not that I'm asking to make it 100% optional, but just to prove to GGG almost no one would care for it. Of course they will never want to see this confirmed as a lot of dev time went into it. The only thing I like about it is the outside tileset and the soundtrack.

Vocal minority or not, it does not make a feedback pointless.

I do not recall GGG sharing with us any detailed statistics on Lab usage. In any way, it should be in GGG's interest to make any available content as attractive as possible. I cant imagine any developer would intentionally create content automatically unattractive/undesired by players.

I also do not agree with GGG's and some opponents of changes to Lab that Ascendancy points are optional. I find Ascendancy mandatory in an environment where clear speed meta is prevalent and Ascendancy enables it in most cases. If you want to build optimal character, you have to get Ascendancy points, therefore, you have to run Labs. I believe 4 points are absolute minimum to get, which should also be achievable by all or at least most builds (Normal and Cruel). Merciless lab is also relatively easy for any character progressing into maps. Uber-Lab is gated behind RNG, which I don't like but those last 2 points are often just to complete the build rather than enable it.

I can cope with Lab but I would still like to see GGG making Lab more enjoyable, this would probably mean to make it shorter, less build dependent, etc.

Fuck the lab! All should have mods to make it fair:
All have same regen amount
Ci converted to hp (lab only) and same much hp per difficulty
Movement skills all same fast (warp, leap, dash)
Would make it really the frogger, so fuck it.

"

Baron01 wrote:

I also do not agree with GGG's and some opponents of changes to Lab that Ascendancy points are optional. I find Ascendancy mandatory in an environment where clear speed meta is prevalent and Ascendancy enables it in most cases.

I can cope with Lab but I would still like to see GGG making Lab more enjoyable, this would probably mean to make it shorter, less build dependent, etc.

I find this somewhat contradicting, labyrinth is among the few things that don't really play into clear speed meta. Juggernaut, for instance isn't a very popular ascendancy otherwise but makes for a pretty good lab farmer, and if they shorten it they will also have to reduce the rewards so lab farming might not even be a thing anymore.

Don't see the big problem, some might not like the lab but anyone should be able to force himself to do three or four runs to get the points. Very few people like the levelling process in the whole anyway and if you start removing tedious stuff left and right you get D3 where you fully deck yourself out from scratch in two days.

Lab was created to refresh game expirience of the players, all 3 first are pretty easy to run with almost any character (ES have some problems with spike traps, but you always can swap weapon for dagger and whirl+faster attack through them even if you Pledge of hand SRS summoner)
Uber lab was created for top tier character OPTIONAL upgrade, its TRIAL ffs, it was not designed to run each day with ez(except for some lifebased high regen/armored runner builds).
When you dont wanna run it but need those points - buy Uber service and someone run it for you for boss loot and small fee like 10c.


But you should name thread "I cant finish Uber lab with minimal efforts".
Its can be "Itzaro too stronk cuz i let him take all charges, or my char movement control is very bad so every single trap hits me, i cant concentrate on 1 thing during 15 minutes" - its all just excuses.
Git gud.

"

grubworm wrote:

Sorry thought GGG wanted to hear what the game players are thinking. I love the game. I love the changes the GGG has done to date. I just want GGG to know that lab is not funz.

They do/it's important etc but this kind of thread has been made hundreds of times, several months ago.

You're really late to the party.