Nothing wrong with Blade Flurry, it's not OP it just doesn't suck like typical melee

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Emphasy wrote:

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I'll repeat it - DOGSHIT SKILL Only reason why it's good is because THE OTHER MELEE SKILLS ARE EVEN MORE DOGSHIT.

So Blade Flurry is better than at least half of the spells because Melee skills are terrible? I would even say that some of the Melee skills are a lot closer in competition to it than most spells and it is so much better than basically any bow skill. Barrage might keep up and if you have a high damage weapon or Prism LA is really nice due to how many hits you can achieve, but you need really good gear for that.

Blade Flurry is an attack and as such it should be obvious that you can't just run around with Mightflay and expect to destroy everything. But even with some of the cheap options like Scaeva or Allure you get much better results than with any equally priced bow or weapon with another skill. The only one that technically is an attack and scales as easy is warchief, again because it does ridicolous damage with conc. effect, but even that is not as common. Blade Flurry right now is the best attack in the game, not just the best melee attack or at least it is the most common. And if you just simply assume that FB is pretty broken it is behind that with Essence Drain. So the top3 used skills in high competitive areas are Flameblast, Essence Drain and Blade Flurry. I don't see many BV builds, likely because GGG called their buff of BV a nerf and people believed it, but that could be a fourth strong skill and I already see some of them creeping up.

I still expect two Blade Flurries to be Top50, which pretty much always stayed true and most of the time there were a lot more. Most skills are not represented or by a single character. Some builds only start creeping up because they need some more specific gear like Lowlife Animate weapon. Overall we have a decent mix of chars that were at some point in the Top50, Cyclone was there, Earthquake was there, Rain of Arrows was there (or actually still is), a classic Zombie/Spectre summoner was there. The weakest "class" right now are obviously archers, poison and the double dipping with projectile damage was essentially what kept them alive, with those things nerfed over and over they are mostly gone, every once in a while you see EA and CA because they aren't really all that much about bows, but overall their representation is a lot lower than any other style or class or however to call it.

You do realize that I_NO is probably walking around in a 900 ES Chest with near BiS mirror level gear and still can't make the skill seem that good right? If you watch Etup he's not even clearing as fast as someone like Havoc on Vaal Spark or Xai on FB totems, and that's with a baller dagger and a headhunter.

Well it was a 970 chest sold that shit lol went to a 740 the setup was using twin scourge claws as well I was a GEARED person to the very fucking core had my ''group'' put everything out for me for extreme perfection.

Results were DOGSHIT

D O GGGGG SHIT god I fucking love that word.

Not only did I waste my groups time but I became frustrated because once more I thought the community said this was a broken ass next BV skill fuck no this is terrible ''dude'' to the point where I was like wow I'm just going to leave the league until one of my group members stated well just liquidate it don't worry lol

I even did the dagger setup no results either

DOG DOO DOO

I was given permission to link it here to feel baller af



AHHHHHHH friend will make it mirror worthy later not even needed.

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Not only did I waste my groups time but I became frustrated because once more I thought the community said this was a broken ass next BV skill fuck no this is terrible ''dude'' to the point where I was like wow I'm just going to leave the league until one of my group members stated well just liquidate it don't worry lol

No, that isn't what a lot of people said. The description reads more like "above average". And considering how many terrible skills exist above average isn't even close to OP. Above average also means that the skill gem doesn't require nerfs, because while it would be too strong in a more balanced environment it doesn't make sense too nerf a skill that might be slightly stronger than what you would want to have as long as there are skill that are way too strong.

In 2.4.2 the argument was that it was too much a jack of all trades. The skill did basically everything, covering a huge area and destroying bosses. Now it does the later, which is fine it gives the skill a reason to exist, without making other skills obsolete.

And for PoE messures a skill that's dogshit isn't even that bad, because you have a truckload of skills that are bullshit. And dogshit is objectively better than bullshit. Since a few patches now there are a few skills that are outperforming so heavily that just having a good skill feels terrible as soon as you see someone using those skills or playing them yourself. If you pick up the game and pick Blade Flurry you will have an enjoyable experience it is a fun and viable skill. The only reason it feels terrible is due to what other things they allow to stay in the game.

I have no idea why FB didn't get a nerf. I have no idea why they thought it is a good idea to buff Blade Vortex. And I'm not sure why they didn't follow through on what they said about wanting Vaal Skills to be supportive instead of just outright clearing everything with a cast. I'm propably the wrong person to ask, but if you remove the 5 strongest options Blade Flurry would start to feel a lot better and even now it is more commonly used than it's power would suggest. And while there are people claiming that they reach 7m dps with (the math I have seen was very sketchy), it is a decent skill to play around because most importantly it has a fun mechanic.

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Emphasy wrote:

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Not only did I waste my groups time but I became frustrated because once more I thought the community said this was a broken ass next BV skill fuck no this is terrible ''dude'' to the point where I was like wow I'm just going to leave the league until one of my group members stated well just liquidate it don't worry lol

No, that isn't what a lot of people said. The description reads more like "above average". And considering how many terrible skills exist above average isn't even close to OP. Above average also means that the skill gem doesn't require nerfs, because while it would be too strong in a more balanced environment it doesn't make sense too nerf a skill that might be slightly stronger than what you would want to have as long as there are skill that are way too strong.

In 2.4.2 the argument was that it was too much a jack of all trades. The skill did basically everything, covering a huge area and destroying bosses. Now it does the later, which is fine it gives the skill a reason to exist, without making other skills obsolete.

And for PoE messures a skill that's dogshit isn't even that bad, because you have a truckload of skills that are bullshit. And dogshit is objectively better than bullshit. Since a few patches now there are a few skills that are outperforming so heavily that just having a good skill feels terrible as soon as you see someone using those skills or playing them yourself. If you pick up the game and pick Blade Flurry you will have an enjoyable experience it is a fun and viable skill. The only reason it feels terrible is due to what other things they allow to stay in the game.

I have no idea why FB didn't get a nerf. I have no idea why they thought it is a good idea to buff Blade Vortex. And I'm not sure why they didn't follow through on what they said about wanting Vaal Skills to be supportive instead of just outright clearing everything with a cast. I'm propably the wrong person to ask, but if you remove the 5 strongest options Blade Flurry would start to feel a lot better and even now it is more commonly used than it's power would suggest. And while there are people claiming that they reach 7m dps with (the math I have seen was very sketchy), it is a decent skill to play around because most importantly it has a fun mechanic.

For the amount of investment it takes to make the skill work it's kind of ridiculous. And before Fruz comes in and says "Dual Dream Feather" again, you can insert ST and get pretty much the same results.

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For the amount of investment it takes to make the skill work it's kind of ridiculous. And before Fruz comes in and says "Dual Dream Feather" again, you can insert ST and get pretty much the same results.

And I would say that Spectral Throw has pretty much the same powerlevel. Although it is lower on bosses and slightly better on clear, but alltogether they are similar. ST is likely a bit on the strong end though, but it is less fun to use and again even though it is above average this doesn't mean much considering how far from the average some other skills are.

And again I'm not sure what you are trying to achieve with that... name any attack skill that requires less investment, any. You will very quickly notice that attack scaling is terrible compared to spell scaling, but if you fix it skills like Blade Flurry, Warchief or Earthquake would be totally broken. So you either have to nerf them to be able to fix the general scaling issue, buff every single attack skill so much that it doesn't matter or just accept that most attack skills are terrible.

Right now Blade Flurry does exspecially well considering how many things are stacked against it. And that people are trying to get the most out of poison shows that, because just dealing physical damage is terrible because weapon scaling is. If you scale poison damage you can get a lot from a simple added chaos gem, which does pretty much the same for any fast weapon so you just pick one that improves on that and Scourge is a pretty good option and with a Necromancer you suddenly also get a lot of damage scaling. For your offhand you can pretty much pick anything, but most would pick a shield because CI, but Deaths Hand would also be a good option or just using Gryphon for more speed in easier areas would propably work.

Attacks have huge scaling issues, it is easy to see that by looking when attacks were or are good. Blade Flurry is used because its more modifier works on poison. Prism is used because it essentially does insane damage just for having steel rings. Poison Barrage (often on Reach or Opus) was used because again it scaled beyond the regular physical damage. If you don't have ways to double dip poison or just get a huge damage multiplier on every bit of physical damage you can get on your gear, attacks suck. But that is something a ridicolously strong skill can't fix. And compared to other attacks Blade Flurry looks a lot more ridicolous than compared to other skills in general.

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Emphasy wrote:

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For the amount of investment it takes to make the skill work it's kind of ridiculous. And before Fruz comes in and says "Dual Dream Feather" again, you can insert ST and get pretty much the same results.

And I would say that Spectral Throw has pretty much the same powerlevel. Although it is lower on bosses and slightly better on clear, but alltogether they are similar. ST is likely a bit on the strong end though, but it is less fun to use and again even though it is above average this doesn't mean much considering how far from the average some other skills are.

And again I'm not sure what you are trying to achieve with that... name any attack skill that requires less investment, any. You will very quickly notice that attack scaling is terrible compared to spell scaling, but if you fix it skills like Blade Flurry, Warchief or Earthquake would be totally broken. So you either have to nerf them to be able to fix the general scaling issue, buff every single attack skill so much that it doesn't matter or just accept that most attack skills are terrible.

Right now Blade Flurry does exspecially well considering how many things are stacked against it. And that people are trying to get the most out of poison shows that, because just dealing physical damage is terrible because weapon scaling is. If you scale poison damage you can get a lot from a simple added chaos gem, which does pretty much the same for any fast weapon so you just pick one that improves on that and Scourge is a pretty good option and with a Necromancer you suddenly also get a lot of damage scaling. For your offhand you can pretty much pick anything, but most would pick a shield because CI, but Deaths Hand would also be a good option or just using Gryphon for more speed in easier areas would propably work.

Attacks have huge scaling issues, it is easy to see that by looking when attacks were or are good. Blade Flurry is used because its more modifier works on poison. Prism is used because it essentially does insane damage just for having steel rings. Poison Barrage (often on Reach or Opus) was used because again it scaled beyond the regular physical damage. If you don't have ways to double dip poison or just get a huge damage multiplier on every bit of physical damage you can get on your gear, attacks suck. But that is something a ridicolously strong skill can't fix. And compared to other attacks Blade Flurry looks a lot more ridicolous than compared to other skills in general.

EQ, Cyclone, AW, and a host of others require far less investment. If we're talking about specifically dagger Blade Flurry builds, the other 3 skills require tremendously less investment to have similar power levels. Blade Flurry scales better in the end, but it takes a tremendous amount of work to get it to where it needs to be. Talking about 750+ ES Chest, 350+ ES Shield, 300+ ES Helm, etc. on top of either a 240 PDPS Binos or a 300 PDPS Dagger with crit rolls.

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Emphasy wrote:

And considering how many terrible skills exist above average isn't even close to OP. Above average also means that the skill gem doesn't require nerfs, because while it would be too strong in a more balanced environment it doesn't make sense too nerf a skill that might be slightly stronger than what you would want to have as long as there are skill that are way too strong.

...

And for PoE messures a skill that's dogshit isn't even that bad, because you have a truckload of skills that are bullshit. And dogshit is objectively better than bullshit. Since a few patches now there are a few skills that are outperforming so heavily that just having a good skill feels terrible as soon as you see someone using those skills or playing them yourself. If you pick up the game and pick Blade Flurry you will have an enjoyable experience it is a fun and viable skill. The only reason it feels terrible is due to what other things they allow to stay in the game.

I find that REALLLLLLY interesting because that was my argument to begin with and it's the argument Fruz adamantly opposed. As well as you yourself, if I remember correctly. I said and I quote from memory, "there is no reason to nerf BF when there will be stronger spells in the next patch". Oh surprise look what happened?

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Emphasy wrote:

The skill did basically everything, covering a huge area and destroying bosses. Now it does the later, which is fine it gives the skill a reason to exist, without making other skills obsolete.

Viper strike will always kill bosses better, not to mention clear speed is the only thing that matters AND ALSO IS THE ONLY THING MELEE BUILDS DON'T HAVE. There are ALREADY good single target dps melee options. This skill DOESN'T have a reason to exist right now.

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Emphasy wrote:

I'm propably the wrong person to ask, but if you remove the 5 strongest options Blade Flurry would start to feel a lot better and even now it is more commonly used than it's power would suggest. And while there are people claiming that they reach 7m dps with (the math I have seen was very sketchy), it is a decent skill to play around because most importantly it has a fun mechanic.

Except that again, those 5 options DO EXIST.

Well right now daggers are kinda expensive because of Blade Flurry, last league a Binos would have been 5c :P that is not a lot of investment.

And even a cheap claw like Touch of Anguish is not a lot of investment. There are cheap 1c weapons on both ends and scaling is expensive in both cases because they essentially scale the same, it is mostly who gets more play and if there is more Blade Flurry like right now the weapons are more expensive.

I'm not sure about Cyclone, its better with the bigger AoE but I'm still very unsure about it, the damage is still terrible since the 50% less on first hit.

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Emphasy wrote:

Well right now daggers are kinda expensive because of Blade Flurry, last league a Binos would have been 5c :P that is not a lot of investment.

And even a cheap claw like Touch of Anguish is not a lot of investment. There are cheap 1c weapons on both ends and scaling is expensive in both cases because they essentially scale the same, it is mostly who gets more play and if there is more Blade Flurry like right now the weapons are more expensive.

I'm not sure about Cyclone, its better with the bigger AoE but I'm still very unsure about it, the damage is still terrible since the 50% less on first hit.

300+ PDPS daggers have always been expensive, as you go up they get even more expensive. Binos is cheap, but it's not gonna be helping you crush tier 15/16 bosses anytime soon.


Cyclone still does really good damage for the amount you invest in it.

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I find that REALLLLLLY interesting because that was my argument to begin with and it's the argument Fruz adamantly opposed. As well as you yourself, if I remember correctly. I said and I quote from memory, "there is no reason to nerf BF when there will be stronger spells in the next patch". Oh surprise look what happened?

At this point though Flameblast was far less dominant (there were 3 or so in the Top50) while the most dominant playstyles were Blade Vortex and Raging Spirits. Both got nerfed or they tried to nerf them, although they guy trying to nerf Blade Vortex propably rolled double 1s.

And the thing is, we can't really say how much more Blade Flurry would have been played if the small nerfs wouldn't have happened. The huge AoE it had was kinda an issue. The AoE around your hits already was bigger than the AoE of Fireball and the targetting range was insane. Exspecially for HC such range changes likely make a huge difference because range means safety. Right now the amount of people playing Blade Flurry is a lot higher than most other skills, which of course have to do with the fact that it is new... although hardly anybody plays Scorching Ray or Blight, so it also has to do with power. And since a lot of people actually play it very successful it can't be bad.

And still it is hard to think of many stronger skills. That essentially everybody moved to Flameblast was something that could have been expected, considering that people didn't know how to react to the BV changes and lost the option for Raging Spirits. We should also remember that Flameblast Totems got some huge buffs with the changes to totem nodes, not many of those are picked, but the ones that are offer some nice additional stats... again this buff was something nobody could expect.

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300+ PDPS daggers have always been expensive, as you go up they get even more expensive. Binos is cheap, but it's not gonna be helping you crush tier 15/16 bosses anytime soon.

Ehm... you can kill Shaper with Binos or Uber or pretty much anything. It was done. I doubt someone would try it in HC, because it is likely not as safe as going there when he can hardly touch you, but it is not undoable. As a Berserker people even facetanked shaper with a Lifebuild, mostly because you can wear Abyssus on Shaper, which boosts your damage massively (because of Crit Mult and huge amounts of Flat Damage). Not to mention that Binos is already dropping price, because it can hardly be called rare (exspecially with how many strange barrels you can find nowadays). And you can also just use a sword, Varunastra is not that expensive and works great with Blade Flurry, exspecially if you are not close to dagger nodes like Duelist or Marauder. The interesting thing about BF is how many people used it successful. Raider, Assassin, Pathfinder, Trickster, Gladiator and I wouldn't be surprised to see Juggernaut or Necromancer in the Top50 with the skill. Currently there only is one Trickster, one Assassin and one Gladiator using BF in the Top50, but there are two new ones running up and most of them use pretty average weapons even Scourge doesn't rock a very high dps, but for a poison build that hardly matters anyway.