Nothing wrong with Blade Flurry, it's not OP it just doesn't suck like typical melee

"

Make a glacial hammer or heavy strike build without melee splash. AoE doesn't matter lmao. Lmao. Lmao.

Read -> Understand -> Respond.

The topic was leech. And Leech hardly matters in AoE situations because enemies melt instantly (of course this changes if you fight 12 Daressos or something similar that doesn't die instantly but when does that ever happen). And just for your info... Blade Flurry deals more damage than those skills in single target situations. Average multiplier is 1,85, so considering 60% more attack speed and 66,4% weapon damage and the fact it hits twice per application it deals 103% more damage than Heavy Strike. Fun Fact Number two, even if you don't charge it at all it deals 20% more damage than Heavy Strike. So if I would want to make a single target build it would be Blade Flurry anyway, even more so since the multiplier it gives applies to poison. And for Number 3, Viper Strike deals more damage than Heavy Strike and is the only other attack besides Earthquake that deals more base damage than uncharged Blade Flurry (of course you have to assume that you can reduce the Earthquake duration down to any attackspeed).

Trashmobs hardly even touch you with Blade Flurry, so leech isn't important in those situations and the thing is you still have to hit twice as many mobs with reave, which isn't too hard but for Blade Flurry is doesn't even matter since the damage is high enough that one enemy is enough to sustain yourself.

Blade Vortex effectively sustained itself with 4% Leech (20% Lightning Conversation from Vinktars and 20% Lightning Damage Leech, resulting in 4% Leech based on total damage), while Blade Vortex as access to leech from basically any source, resulting in the same overall Leech if not higher. Considering the damage of Blade Flurry is about 3 times lower it gets a bit harder and you might not want to stand there just taking any hit, but there are enough short term boosts to ignore that again. If your gear is well enough optimized Blade Flurry essentially plays the same as Blade Vortex, you just have to hold down your button a bit longer before the enemy dies.

"

Emphasy wrote:

"

Legatus1982 wrote:

This is false. Reave hits everything in its range 100% of the time, bf hits smaller areas each hit. The range as well as the target area per hit is significantly different.

If you've got an entire screen filled with mobs you are probably leeching more with reave.

Pre nerf this may have been true.

I usually speak about single target, AoE situations hardly ever matter because Trash mobs and even rares die so quickly that they hardly ever deal damage.

And I actually am using Reave and Blade Flurry right now an switch them out every so often. And it is Night and Day. Reave feels so terrible. The AoE isn't great, Groundslam is a lot better

And I even used to like Reave, but after playing with Blade Flurry I can't play with Reave. I still like Groundslam just because it doesn't get reduced to uselessness after not attacking for a short while. Reave just always forces you into a hurry, which I don't like.

I was kind of following you and mostly agreeing with you until this. Idk what planet you're even on when you wrote this/what joojoo you've been smoking.

For starters I've never had a problem with single target damage on any skill, for the most part you aim your damage at the rare mob and the rest of the trash all die by the time you finish killing it. It has never slowed me down on reave or any other aoe skill. For armored + extra life + regen + evasive + whatever, just fucking skip it, why waste your time? That extra rare mob xp and crappy loot isn't going to alter your life. If you're having trouble with a boss on a dagger character, viper strike on a 3-link is probably doing more dps anyways. Or ancestral warchief.

Reave literally hits everything that is in front of your character and is visible on your screen. Like, I mean even up to the top left corner of your monitor. You're often off-screening stuff. BF is really annoyingly inconsistent, and especially after the nerf the aoe CERTAINLY isn't anywhere near the levels of an 8-stack reave with a couple passive tree aoe nodes. BF doesn't hit anything behind you unless you've got mobs literally surrounding you, which is a bad gameplan to begin with, and so they have a similar cone of effect (reave's is wider actually). So idk where this idea that reave feels terrible is even coming from.

I agree with you about being in a hurry with reave, it's kind of annoying to not want to lose stacks when you just saw 6ex and 3 shavs drop, but really reave is just reinforcing what I would call efficient use of your time. Is it worth backtracking to pick it up/lose your stacks? Then grab it. If it's not, then don't. Reave drives this concept home in a way where other skills don't really penalize time-wasting activies.

"

Emphasy wrote:

The topic was leech. And Leech hardly matters in AoE situations because enemies melt instantly (of course this changes if you fight 12 Daressos or something similar that doesn't die instantly but when does that ever happen). And just for your info... Blade Flurry deals more damage than those skills in single target situations. Average multiplier is 1,85, so considering 60% more attack speed and 66,4% weapon damage and the fact it hits twice per application it deals 103% more damage than Heavy Strike. Fun Fact Number two, even if you don't charge it at all it deals 20% more damage than Heavy Strike. So if I would want to make a single target build it would be Blade Flurry anyway, even more so since the multiplier it gives applies to poison. And for Number 3, Viper Strike deals more damage than Heavy Strike and is the only other attack besides Earthquake that deals more base damage than uncharged Blade Flurry (of course you have to assume that you can reduce the Earthquake duration down to any attackspeed).

What do you mean by Blade Flurry hitting twice per application? As far as I know it is one hit per application.
If you want it to hit twice in one application you got to press/release in a consistent pattern. I don't think you want to do that for every single encounter.

Currently, I am planning to use Blade Flurry and Cast when Channeling, since I want to try that out. I am just going through normal at the moment and taking my time slowly.
As far as I can tell, Blade Flurry's clear speed is slower than Viper Strike + melee splash. I am using the latter in place of Blade Flurry at the moment. The AoE of Blade Flurry is somewhat inconsistent and I do not want to time my press/release for every encounter to maximize my damage.

"

Fruz wrote:

"

allbusiness wrote:

Even before it wasn't that good. If you removed Vaal Pact, the skill instantly struggles because if it can't kill the boss fast enough, it just dies instantly. The reason why the skill looks good is because of Vaal Pact, not the other way around. It does pretty good damage, and it has good clear speed even now. It requires insane investment of gear, as you need a really good buffer, you need a really good specific daggers that cost alot along with investment into crit on the tree, etc.

No, this is just not true.
This is not true at all.

Project PT is playing BF self found at the moment, with a sword ( that I guess he doesnt find very good ) and he still seem to be doing pretty, pretty well.

Nugiyen is destroying everything with a double dreamfeather + added chaos damage setup.

It isn't anything like tons of investment in both cases, and it works ( or at least it seems so very well ).

The price of BF preferred weapon might be very high .... which clearly indicates the popularity of the skill.


And the part where without VP the skill instantly struggles is also a blantant lie.
It is one of the smoothest skill you can play seriously, you can move around all you want, meaning you can kite pretty well and the targeting is just amazing compared to most other skills out there, meaning kiting is even better.

And neither of them kill bosses as fast as I do.


And yes, they invested way more in their tree and gear than I did, meanwhile I have a Doryani's scepter at most which is the most expensive thing. Everything else I've dumped into defense/utility. And I'm fucking self cast Flameblast, which isn't even as remotely safe as Flameblast Totems.

"

allbusiness wrote:

And neither of them kill bosses as fast as I do.


And yes, they invested way more in their tree and gear than I did, meanwhile I have a Doryani's scepter at most which is the most expensive thing. Everything else I've dumped into defense/utility. And I'm fucking self cast Flameblast, which isn't even as remotely safe as Flameblast Totems.

I call BS on this, like really.

Xai ripped ( pizza sticks, 4th on the BHC ladder ) on Chayula couple of days ago, he got overwhelmed and killed by the adds.
Nugiyen just took 10 times less time than him to kill it, adds didn't even have the change to pop, he barely took any damage, and the little damage that he took he could just over leech it anyway.

Nugiyen would have been in a party, poison would have just accelerated the dying ate of Chayula and he would have died shortly later than he did in this case.
And he has like NO offensive investment from the three.

And your "Doryani's scepter at most" .... there are 2 of them on the market right now : 140 and 150 chaos.
So about the fact that they invested much more than you in offense, just /LOL

Double dreamfeather does not cost even a third of this.
His chest ( second element that gives him dps increase) costs about 20c, and one could use the non upgraded form ( 5c ) for the same dps increase.
All his currency has been going into new gear to switch to low life, he has not actually been wearing it yet, but he still farms breachlords.


ProjectPT is self found.
So he might be dealing significantly less damage on bosses, but he still is doing well, which brings us back to the point : Bladeflurry needing expensive gear to do well is just plain BS, it's a blatant lie, it's just nonsense.



So, tldr :
- You have actually more offensive investment with just your Doryani's scepter
- You do not kill tough bosses faster

Or are you farming Chayula and instanty killing him, and by that I mean literally instantly ?
I know that I was underestimating flamblast, but this here seems just flat out wrong, very very wrong.
You don't seem to realize what blade flurry can do, and the part about you using cheap offensive setup compared to the examples I used just shows me that you don't know what/how they are doing.

"

Fruz wrote:

"

allbusiness wrote:

And neither of them kill bosses as fast as I do.


And yes, they invested way more in their tree and gear than I did, meanwhile I have a Doryani's scepter at most which is the most expensive thing. Everything else I've dumped into defense/utility. And I'm fucking self cast Flameblast, which isn't even as remotely safe as Flameblast Totems.

I call BS on this, like really.

Xai ripped ( pizza sticks, 4th on the BHC ladder ) on Chayula couple of days ago, he got overwhelmed and killed by the adds.
Nugiyen just took 10 times less time than him to kill it, adds didn't even have the change to pop, he barely took any damage, and the little damage that he took he could just over leech it anyway.

Nugiyen would have been in a party, poison would have just accelerated the dying ate of Chayula and he would have died shortly later than he did in this case.
And he has like NO offensive investment from the three.

And your "Doryani's scepter at most" .... there are 2 of them on the market right now : 140 and 150 chaos.
So about the fact that they invested much more than you in offense, just /LOL

Double dreamfeather does not cost even a third of this.
His chest ( second element that gives him dps increase) costs about 20c, and one could use the non upgraded form ( 5c ) for the same dps increase.
All his currency has been going into new gear to switch to low life, he has not actually been wearing it yet, but he still farms breachlords.


ProjectPT is self found.
So he might be dealing significantly less damage on bosses, but he still is doing well, which brings us back to the point : Bladeflurry needing expensive gear to do well is just plain BS, it's a blatant lie, it's just nonsense.



So, tldr :
- You have actually more offensive investment with just your Doryani's scepter
- You do not kill tough bosses faster

Or are you farming Chayula and instanty killing him, and by that I mean literally instantly ?
I know that I was underestimating flamblast, but this here seems just flat out wrong, very very wrong.
You don't seem to realize what blade flurry can do, and the part about you using cheap offensive setup compared to the examples I used just shows me that you don't know what/how they are doing.

Xai ripped because he fucked up. Anyone would have ripped if they fucked up that bad.


I was using a rare scepter with like garbage mods on it one shotting nearly every boss in the game. Doryanis just made it faster.


Bladeflurry has nothing to do with Nuigyen or anyone else. I could literally go Wild fucking Strike and still just afk hit a Breachlord to death. It has to do with the fact that crit scales so high and that vaal pact/ci is broken. Blade Flurry isn't even remotely broken, it's just merely 'good.'


If you seriously believe that Blade Flurry requires less investment than Flameblast you have absolutely 0 clue what you're talking about. Blade Flurry requires far more investment to get off the ground, meanwhile you can be on a 4 link annihilating maps with zero uniques and absolutely shit rares with Flameblast.


And yes, if you go damage and dual curse you can one shot Chayula with a big ignite if you line up all the passives. It's not that hard. Rhox's HC Flameblaster is pretty capable of one shotting it, and that's without using Grand Spectrum Jewels.

The point about Xai is :
- If he would have destroyed the boss within 3 sec ( because you know ... you can do it apparently ), it would not have happened.

And Nugiyen was destroying Chayula that fast, at quite safe range, taking almost no damage ( and leeching ).
Not understand that Bladeflurry has a really, really good single target dps is not knowing how it works.

Afk wild strike hit Chayula to death ?
Please, by all means do so and show us how you do it, it'll be very enlightening for everybody.


I never said that bladeflurry needed less investment than flameblast, you are completely misunderstanding basically everything here.

You started spreading nonsense about their offesnvie gear being much better than yours while you were one shotting bosses :

- You are definitely not dealing more damage than Nugiyen's pathfinder.
- Your offensive gear ( the one you quoted, = Doryani ) does cost actually more than his ( well he just swapped low life to use headhunter, so it is not true anymore, but it was in the example that I took, in the scenario that I mentioned ). And he was full tank, he still is.

"

allbusiness wrote:

And yes, if you go damage and dual curse you can one shot Chayula with a big ignite if you line up all the passives. It's not that hard. Rhox's HC Flameblaster is pretty capable of one shotting it, and that's without using Grand Spectrum Jewels.

I'm wondering why Xai didn't at all then, he must have had a bad build or maybe he's a bad player ?
He was only 4th on the ladder after all ...
We are talking about HC here, not SC ( but even in SC then, you could go full damage bladeflurry if needed, which would prolly boost the dps up significantly ).

"

Fruz wrote:

The point about Xai is :
- If he would have destroyed the boss within 3 sec ( because you know ... you can do it apparently ), it would not have happened.

And Nugiyen was destroying Chayula that fast, at quite safe range, taking almost no damage ( and leeching ).
Not understand that Bladeflurry has a really, really good single target dps is not knowing how it works.

Afk wild strike hit Chayula to death ?
Please, by all means do so and show us how you do it, it'll be very enlightening for everybody.


I never said that bladeflurry needed less investment than flameblast, you are completely misunderstanding basically everything here.

You started spreading nonsense about their offesnvie gear being much better than yours while you were one shotting bosses :

- You are definitely not dealing more damage than Nugiyen's pathfinder.
- Your offensive gear ( the one you quoted, = Doryani ) does cost actually more than his ( well he just swapped low life to use headhunter, so it is not true anymore, but it was in the example that I took, in the scenario that I mentioned ). And he was full tank, he still is.

"

allbusiness wrote:

And yes, if you go damage and dual curse you can one shot Chayula with a big ignite if you line up all the passives. It's not that hard. Rhox's HC Flameblaster is pretty capable of one shotting it, and that's without using Grand Spectrum Jewels.

I'm wondering why Xai didn't at all then, he must have had a bad build or maybe he's a bad player ?
He was only 4th on the ladder after all ...
We are talking about HC here, not SC ( but even in SC then, you could go full damage bladeflurry if needed, which would prolly boost the dps up significantly ).

Yeah, because clearly I'm some scrub here not playing Breach HC; oh wait, how about you get above 80 first and out of Dried Lake.



Xai was FB totems, totem FB does significantly less damage then a self cast Flameblaster. Even then, if your shock aligns with your damage buff from Elementalist you can pretty much 1 shot ignite any boss outside of ignite immunes, Guardians, and Shaper.

With self cast, you can actually one shot ignite Minotaur so I don't know how you even think you can't 1 shot ignite Chayula. Shows serious fucking ignorance on your part.

Totems deal less damage ... except when you have more than one, and that they just release full charges.
Sure, you loose the chance of a big ignite, but it keeps flameblasting even after.


You missed the point, so let me explain :

you were refering to "if you go damage and dual curse" well let me tell you, genius : a blade flurry character could also go damage and dual curse.

But there is no need, because the boss already melts with a fully defensive setup.

The ignorance is on your part, where you think that bladeflurry does no damage without top tier gear + offensive investment, which is blatantly wrong.


PS : And you don't need to rely on something that has a chance to happen ( aka ignite ) with bladeflurry.

PPS : If building defensive for HC + one shotting Chayula is that easy, I am waiting for you to show it to everyone, and tell us how you are doing it with a cheap build after.
Up to you.

PPPS : I'm not somebody that just feels comfortable/better taking the easiest way and most fotm builds unlike you maybe, I don't need to be level 80 to start mapping.

PPPPS : "I'm not some scrub"
Nice mentality, you seem to be such a nice person lmao.

"

Fruz wrote:

Totems deal less damage ... except when you have more than one, and that they just release full charges.
Sure, you loose the chance of a big ignite, but it keeps flameblasting even after.


You missed the point, so let me explain :

you were refering to "if you go damage and dual curse" well let me tell you, genius : a blade flurry character could also go damage and dual curse.

But there is no need, because the boss already melts with a fully defensive setup.

The ignorance is on your part, where you think that bladeflurry does no damage without top tier gear + offensive investment, which is blatantly wrong.


PS : And you don't need to rely on something that has a chance to happen ( aka ignite ) with bladeflurry.

PPS : If building defensive for HC + one shotting Chayula is that easy, I am waiting for you to show it to everyone, and tell us how you are doing it with a cheap build after.
Up to you.

PPPS : I'm not somebody that just feels comfortable/better taking the easiest way and most fotm builds unlike you maybe, I don't need to be level 80 to start mapping.

PPPPS : "I'm not some scrub"
Nice mentality, you seem to be such a nice person lmao.

Why are you talking about HC like you've actually played it extensively? You've never even leveled past what, 80 in HC?


Blade Flurry will never match double dipping ignite damage without an absolutely insane dagger. The sustain that Blade Flurry provides is the same as Ele Cyclone with Vaal Pact. It literally has nothing to do with the skill. It could be fucking Spectral throw or some other fucking skill, if it's vaal pact and you have a big enough pool and hit fast enough/do enough damage, you're gonna live no matter what unless the boss stuns/freezes/bursts you in one hit.


And yes, considering that Nuigeyn's build requires specific uniques to actually start farming Breachlords reliably, invests far more in passives in damage, etc. that is a far bigger investment than walking around in a 4L or a shittier 5L with a rare scepter and crushing every Breachlord outside of Chayula.