Labyrinth is for NEET.

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Fruz wrote:

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katchwi wrote:

The worst of all, is that they keep rubbing it in your face as an insult in the last update... an probably in future updates.

So a free game releasing some content you don't like is an insult ?

There is something really wrong here man .... and not something coming from GGG.

Why would you be so wrong? You are just giving your opinion that everything is okay, and i respect it.
Stop treating yourself so bad over nothing, man.

"

katchwi wrote:

"People complain about lab only in your eyes".

Well, dont play lab if you dont like it. If you need the points, ask for help then just dont do it.
Labs are tiring, boring and a waste of time.

The worst of all, is that they keep rubbing it in your face as an insult in the last update... an probably in future updates.
They want you to not play the game, and is a clear message.

Thank you for sharing your feedback. When I notice that someone shares their opinion about having a problem with the labyrinth then I add their name to the list. We're now at 641. Over 270 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 640 posters in support The best way we have to get GGG to fix this is to voice our dislike in the Feedback and Suggestions forum.

(edit: Fruz, give the guy a break. I think English is not his native language. He really didn't say anything disrespectful anyway. He just wanted to share his own feedback on the horrible labyrinth game play.)

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Turtledove wrote:

"

katchwi wrote:

"People complain about lab only in your eyes".

Well, dont play lab if you dont like it. If you need the points, ask for help then just dont do it.
Labs are tiring, boring and a waste of time.

The worst of all, is that they keep rubbing it in your face as an insult in the last update... an probably in future updates.
They want you to not play the game, and is a clear message.

Thank you for sharing your feedback. When I notice that someone shares their opinion about having a problem with the labyrinth then I add their name to the list. We're now at 641. Over 270 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 640 posters in support The best way we have to get GGG to fix this is to voice our dislike in the Feedback and Suggestions forum.

Thanks you for the effort you are doing.
I am asking what the fanboys fully dressed with op builds and legacy items have to say to all this.

Anyways. I am not totally against the lab, i am against it being so important for the evolution of your character.
When you need to repeat a content (and you are not a bot) in order to improve yourself/your character, it needs to be the simpliest and funniest posible. And this game indeed needs a lot of it (repetition). So thats why lab shouldnt be mainstream.

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Zrevnur wrote:

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Pyrokar wrote:

There is no such thing as a "hardcore build" either. Going too defensive gets you no advantage against traps. Movement and attackspeed is a far better option. They managed to homogenise all builds in a game like PoE, where you could play however the fuck you wanted.

Well fucking done.

Yes there are "defensive hardcore builds" for lab/traps. Get as much life regen and phys %mitigation as possible. Lab/traps does not homogenize all builds. It is a different rule set which is applied.

You completely missed the point. The one i quoted said we can't play fully offensive builds because of the lab and i said we can't play fully defensive builds either. There is no point in getting certain defenses against traps, so the lab excludes both types of builds from being playable.

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Pyrokar wrote:

You completely missed the point. The one i quoted said we can't play fully offensive builds because of the lab and i said we can't play fully defensive builds either. There is no point in getting certain defenses against traps, so the lab excludes both types of builds from being playable.

I wasn't actually specifically talking about lab. It was more of a general statement. Personally, I don't find the traps to be too egregious. Annoying, but they've never been the root problem IMO. Since day one, my argument is that Izaro is way too overtuned. Frankly, the labyrinth itself is a pointless waste of content that only wears down your patience as you try to get to the part that actually matters: Izaro.

When I say "standard builds don't exist" I mean that, yes, glass-canon or off-meta builds are universally garbage. Even in standard, you still have to fall in line and play whatever is OP while stacking as much life as possible. Unless, like I said before, you enjoy having your character hit a sheer wall at level 60.

In other words: Standard should be easy mode, hardcore should be hard mode. Instead standard is hard mode, and hardcore is hard mode but you have to macro alt-F4.

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katchwi wrote:

"

Turtledove wrote:

"

katchwi wrote:

"People complain about lab only in your eyes".

Well, dont play lab if you dont like it. If you need the points, ask for help then just dont do it.
Labs are tiring, boring and a waste of time.

The worst of all, is that they keep rubbing it in your face as an insult in the last update... an probably in future updates.
They want you to not play the game, and is a clear message.

Thank you for sharing your feedback. When I notice that someone shares their opinion about having a problem with the labyrinth then I add their name to the list. We're now at 641. Over 270 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 640 posters in support The best way we have to get GGG to fix this is to voice our dislike in the Feedback and Suggestions forum.

Thanks you for the effort you are doing.
I am asking what the fanboys fully dressed with op builds and legacy items have to say to all this.

Anyways. I am not totally against the lab, i am against it being so important for the evolution of your character.
When you need to repeat a content (and you are not a bot) in order to improve yourself/your character, it needs to be the simpliest and funniest posible. And this game indeed needs a lot of it (repetition). So thats why lab shouldnt be mainstream.

This right here is why nobody on the forums should treat you with any respect. You don't want to give your debate opponents any credibility, neither should they.

"

PleiadesBlackstar wrote:

You are not a heavy supporter, owner of at least 10 mirrors and few power legacy items, using op and broken builds (like voltaxic) to be able to play all the content poe has to offer and thats why nobody on the forums should treat you with any respect..

Ok.

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Pyrokar wrote:

"

Zrevnur wrote:

"

Pyrokar wrote:

There is no such thing as a "hardcore build" either. Going too defensive gets you no advantage against traps. Movement and attackspeed is a far better option. They managed to homogenise all builds in a game like PoE, where you could play however the fuck you wanted.

Well fucking done.

Yes there are "defensive hardcore builds" for lab/traps. Get as much life regen and phys %mitigation as possible. Lab/traps does not homogenize all builds. It is a different rule set which is applied.

You completely missed the point. The one i quoted said we can't play fully offensive builds because of the lab and i said we can't play fully defensive builds either. There is no point in getting certain defenses against traps, so the lab excludes both types of builds from being playable.

What exactly is your point? I do not see how the lab excludes a fully defensive build. Maybe some types of defensive builds. But there are fully defensive builds which are good in lab. Like CI ES regen tank. Especially if the player has a laggy connection.

You wrote "Going too defensive gets you no advantage against traps. Movement and attackspeed is a far better option." After writing about "hardcore build". Being lag resistent is a clear advantage for hardcore. So I really do not see your point at all. Your "Movement and attackspeed is a far better option." may make sense if dieing once in xxx runs is acceptable. But for hardcore a lag resistant regen tank simply has a significant advantage.
If you occasionally looked at the uber lab ladders for hardcore vs softcore you may have noticed a difference there. The hardcore ladders typically have more trap resistant ascendancies in them.

Yeah a heavy tank has a clear advantage, however you need physical resistance, which is optainable. ES with the trap nerf to only use 60% of the value makes lab really easy now, exspecially if you have decent ES regen or are an Occultist.

Just look at my character (hint the lvl89 Essence Chieftain) he has terrible gear, terrible damage and only mediocre defense (he still wears tabula) but he did Uberlab. I can't do 3+ Keyruns, I usually just kill Izaro and Argus and that's it. I also don't use a movement skill, I don't really need to. All I do is just walk.

When I just dodge Izaros skills and place my totems carefully it isn't that hard. The other 3 labs though were incredible easy, I would even say ridicolously easy. Merciless Izaro kills himself on a decoy totem faster than Uberizaro dies to the actual RF-Totem -.- (which is mostly due to the skeletal adds hitting the decoy totem).

"

When you need to repeat a content (and you are not a bot) in order to improve yourself/your character, it needs to be the simpliest and funniest posible. And this game indeed needs a lot of it (repetition). So thats why lab shouldnt be mainstream.

I'm still canceling out the Uberlab for that Argument, because that isn't necessary. I kinda agree on the repetiveness. Luckily 3.0 will likely remove a difficulty (that is what they said at least) which would mean one lab is gone. And having two labs to run through makes it a lot less annoying. I don't really like the first two labs either because the rewards are a bit poor, exspecially there should be some reward if you actually do it on the level it was made for. I basically always do cruel and normal lab when I do merc as well, because they game doesn't give me anything for doing it at the respective level and it just takes more time. The RF-Totem build was a bit different I did Cruel and Normal both before going to Daresso in Cruel because having the totems last longer than 4 seconds is actually really good, but I never find a good reason to do Normal Lab at around lvl35 or so.

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I am asking what the fanboys fully dressed with op builds and legacy items have to say to all this.

Again... check out my RF-Totem Chieftain, he did it. And if he did it it can't be that hard. The Lab itself is actually really easy, Izaro is an issue. I can't do Charges, because it is so hard to see when he is at the threshold to retreat and he often ends with one or even two charges because you discharged a bit too early or didn't discharge since you thought you still had a bit left. I think I did him with Gargoyles and Portals and once with Gargoyles and Fonds.

"

When I say "standard builds don't exist" I mean that, yes, glass-canon or off-meta builds are universally garbage. Even in standard, you still have to fall in line and play whatever is OP while stacking as much life as possible. Unless, like I said before, you enjoy having your character hit a sheer wall at level 60.

Well the amount of OP builds have to be astonishing. Because so many builds did manage the Uberlab. Yes not all of them are good for farming it, but it is beatable. You need to accept that Izaro deals mainly physical damage and prepare for it and just dodge his telegraphed attacks, which isn't that hard. Again for ranged chars he is almost free, however I agree on the lab around it. The difficulty gap between Izaro and the rest of the lab is huge. The lab is basically just a snooze fest... mostly just like a lvl75 maps without any mods, while Izaro is harder than most of those bosses. The issue here is that you might lose your concentration because of the easy lab you can basically sleepwalk through it and the traps are not dangerous enough to keep you concentrated, neither are the mobs.

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richter03 wrote:

@Nenjin & @IceDeal : Sorry but I haven't any problem about map, trap isn't bother me much, I wait and analyse their pattern before move, no need for move type skill for me to pass those trap, I always place healing totem in advance before if I'm not sure. Only thing that bring the dead toward to my character is the boss himself and it's always happen in final room.

I had the same problem. Dead ended at Merciless Izaro on my build I've been playing for years. #FilthyCasual. Despaired that I would never get those 2 points.

So I waited a while. And I swear to God, they made Izaro easier in the time I wasn't trying to beat him. (Or was playing PoE at all.)

That and as someone else said, I really, really paid attention to the mechanics of the fight.

The reason Izaro is intimidating is because you can't just retry the fight immediately while you're fresh. You have to go through the whole lab again, and that wears you down, gives you performance anxiety, yadda yadda.

So when I finally got through the fight with that character, I went through the whole labyrinth, every room and died at Izaro 3. The second time I knew what to expect, and what wasn't worth my time doing, and just went straight to Izaro and owned him. 6 Ascendancy points, happy dance.

If your build isn't the issue, then it's just time and practice. You'll get it eventually.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, by most PoE standards I'm a veteran scrub who probably has a shit build. And I managed to do it. (After enough blood, sweat, tear, nerfs and buffs.)