Played my first armor-only character, and I'm disgusted by it.

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Jgizle wrote:

It is essentially the same. If you have 20% PDR you reduce physical damage by 20%. Then that dmg number is reduced by another 20%. Its basically the same.

It isn't exactly the same, but the difference is larger you get to the higher % reduction. Not much of a difference early on.

20% physical damage reduction (armor) and 20% reduction from Fortify comes out to 36% reduction overall.

Now if it is armor and endurance charges, let's say 20% from armor and 20% from endurance charges, it comes out to 40%.

You get more value out of additive, but that extra value won't matter much at lower percentages, because of how it is calculated. At higher percentages additive and multiplicative values start showing a big difference.

Thats true but armor sucks for any damage over a few thousand. For example a 20k hit on a player with 36k armor will only get reduced by 2k-2.5k while you can easily get over 80% PDR from fortify and endurance charges alone and reduce that 20k hit down to only a few thousand. So having some armor is noce, but it should never be a focus of a build.

I might try stacking evasion with fortify and endurance charges.
Seems like armor is worthless.

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Jgizle wrote:

while you can easily get over 80% PDR from fortify and endurance charges alone and reduce that 20k hit down to only a few thousand.

No. This is what "we" are talking about. Even with 12 endurance charges you have only 48% phys resistance. Add fortify for 20% => you take 52% * 0.8 ~= 42% damage. Which equals 58% mitigation for phys hits.

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Zrevnur wrote:

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Jgizle wrote:

while you can easily get over 80% PDR from fortify and endurance charges alone and reduce that 20k hit down to only a few thousand.

No. This is what "we" are talking about. Even with 12 endurance charges you have only 48% phys resistance. Add fortify for 20% => you take 52% * 0.8 ~= 42% damage. Which equals 58% mitigation for phys hits.

Fortify has nodes that help with that.

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plaguefear wrote:

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Zrevnur wrote:

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Jgizle wrote:

while you can easily get over 80% PDR from fortify and endurance charges alone and reduce that 20k hit down to only a few thousand.

No. This is what "we" are talking about. Even with 12 endurance charges you have only 48% phys resistance. Add fortify for 20% => you take 52% * 0.8 ~= 42% damage. Which equals 58% mitigation for phys hits.

Fortify has nodes that help with that.

What exactly is your point? That you can get (from tree) 52% * 0.77 ~=40% damage taken == 60% reduction. No matter how many fortify boosts you use you wont get to 80% with endurance charges and fortify.

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Jgizle wrote:

you can easily get over 80% PDR from fortify and endurance charges alone

What ? Oo
By any mean, please show us how you do that.

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Fruz wrote:

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Jgizle wrote:

you can easily get over 80% PDR from fortify and endurance charges alone

What ? Oo
By any mean, please show us how you do that.

40k armor, 9 endurance charges with heart of oak and ramparts passive node. Notice how much PDR is from armor and how much is not. Not even calculating in Arctic Armor or curses which reduce enemy damage.

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Jgizle wrote:

40k armor, 9 endurance charges with heart of oak and ramparts passive node. Notice how much PDR is from armor and how much is not. Not even calculating in Arctic Armor or curses which reduce enemy damage.

This doesn't explain anything to me...?

Against 10,000 pure Physical Damage, exactly 40,000 Armour would actually prevent 2857 damage, not 2,545... and against 5,000 phys / 5,000 elemental you would prevent 2,222.

What is the initial Hit Physical and Elemental Damage? What defensive mechanics are at play here other than Fortify, Endurance Charges, and Armour?

(Implicitly, what is going into that 85% number?)

Based on a 10,000 pure physical hit damage, I got just a little over 71.6% PDR* with Armour + ECs + Fortify, but I can't see it happening with just fortify and ECs, guessing you meant to imply that Armour is included in there?

* (10000-(3600+2857))*0.8 = 2834.4

Fortify Effectiveness ends up reducing the damage lower than the results you presented. You pick up 15% increased fortify effectiveness to get ramparts. Also I only calculated a pure physical damage hit of 10k, so no elemental damage at all. I am including damage reduced by armor, but my point is that the fact I have 40k armor means nothing. That is an excessive waste of armor and I now know that I can drop 30k armor easily without any real effect on my PDR.

(Side note: Juggernaut can get 40% increased fortify effectiveness total due to unyielding. With Ramparts PDR from fortify is 23%, and with unyielding as a juggernaut increases it to 28% reduced PDR calculated after PDR from armor and endurance charges. This can further be enhanced with Buff Effect from Ichimonji. If you add in Arctic Armor you get an additional 13% less PDR modifier at the end calculated after endurance charges and armor. Chaos Golem gives you a flat 4% PDR added before endurance charges and armor is such is caluclated. If you got 24% PDR Golem will increase that to 28% and then all additional modifiers are calculated after. Realistically you can reduce PDR even lower than what I have presented, almost entirely without armor.)