[outdated] King of the Forest (Crit version)

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Disterric wrote:

"

snuze wrote:

"

Disterric wrote:

[...]

[...]
1. Minimize pathing to Piercing Shots, that will free up 1 additional skill point.
[...]

1. This is probably a viable option with the Drillneck nerf? need feedback on this one, lose 10% pierce.
[...]

"

snuze wrote:

"

Disterric wrote:

1. This is probably a viable option with the Drillneck nerf? need feedback on this one, lose 10% pierce.
2. How is Celerity not worth taking? it is along our normal pathing and that is a lot of movement speed which is also avoidance and is probably needed to make QOTF a viable chestpiece? I think you need something like 11k evasion to bypass the -25% movespeed modifier.
3. I actually think going for the claw nodes will be better due to ability to crit cap without a diamond flask + more leech. Thats pretty juicy.
4. definitely needs this! thank you :)
5. solved with claw nodes.

1. They are not as efficient as they used to be, that's why I recommend investing that point elsewhere.
2. I forgot you're planning to use QotF. :P Yes, in that case it's still worth it.
3. You still need a radius jewel for the claw nodes. And the radius on the jewel is pretty crappy.
4. :)
5. Nope. Not in radius.

Edit: Wait had jewel in wrong socket. Trying again.

"

snuze wrote:

Some notes about the claw nodes:
The first claw damage node is outside of the jewel radius, therefore useless.
Once you're crit capped, all of that crit chance will be useless. Perhaps taking these lets you free up the King of the Hill cluster.
Overall, having to allocate 3 points just to use the radius jewel, followed by 5 points to take Soul Raker, is a steep investment. PoB doesn't seem to handle Lioneye's Fall properly so it's more of a manual calculation, but these nodes are at the very least competitive with their alternatives.

"

IReyn wrote:

Claw nodes aren't really efficient. Grabbing projectile dmg nodes in ranger start area + mana leech above Lethality is basically the same damage gain, if not better. And you can also put an actual jewel in

"

cmphx wrote:

Spoiler

Hey guys, thanks for the vivid discussion and all your suggestions for tree/gear.


I am having troubles editing the main post since I have reached the max. number of characters :D I will go over it tomorrow when I have more time. For now, I will post the most important stuff here for you to read/comment on etc.

I have also quoted the amazingly helpful and insightful posts of Thaya and ggsbv who both reached very high levels (100 and 99) in breach and gave us some very helpful tips. you can read it on the first page of this thread, the second post has them listed.

Is this still viable in 2.6?

YES not much has changed, we got a 50% increased damage nerf from drillneck and reach is worse than deaths opus now. Therefore we use Deaths opus now ! everything else still the same.

I don't think anyone mentioned this before, but Chin Sol actually is the best bow for single target for this build (and already was) but noone tried it I guess. More on that later.

Reach nerf OMG??

yeah, RIP reach. it is now stricly worse than deaths opus. However, reach is still a great bow, I expect it to be very cheap because noone will want to use it, so reach is now budget version lol. Therefore we use Deaths opus now !

Gem setup for deaths opus

Barrage: same as before, Barrage + added chaos + crit strikes + pierce + slower + void manip ((in order of importance)

Lightning arrow: LA + added chaos + pierce + crit strikes + slower proj as a 5L. If you feel like those are not enough arrows, try lesser multiple projectiles instead of slower projectiles, or get another 6L. This kinda increases the cost of the build, for comforable end game mapping you want a 6L lighting arrow now. However map bosses are no issue and you could run barrage in the 5L during easy maps, should be no problem, and use a 6L lightning arrow.

Drillneck?

The quiver is still BIS in my opinon. evasion, attackspeed, life, 50% increased projectile damage that double dips, a HUGE flat physical roll, and very easy to get +1 arrow from (because its unique it means there are so many of them and you can count on it)

+1 arrow is by far the most important stat for endgame. A rare quiver could get crit multi, attackspeed, life, and thats it. flat elemental doesnt help us, the flat physical is tiny on a rare quiver, and there is no flat chaos which would have been best. 50% double dipping increased damage is by far better than 33% crit multi. Since we use opus now, crit multi becomes less desirable, since opus has 150% already, getting us way above 420 crit multi, so another 30% doesnt do as much as it would if we only had 300.

Drillneck is still a juicy damage boost and very well worth it. especially if you can get one with +1 arrow. Should you find a rare quiver that has +1 arrow and some nice stats, you can also use that.

Lioneye Jewel ?

While the jewel is nice for the claw stuff (the jewel converts melee modifier into bow modifier, so we would get claw crit and claw multi and claw leech from that place) it is not worth it point-wise. We do not need any more crit chance, the crit multi is nice though. we can get the leech for the same amount of points in the duelist area. overall i dont think it is worth it, it might be with a different bow build though.

What about going CI ?

I dont think its that good for this build, there are too many issues:

- stuns ?
- how to get frenzies? bloodrage is not very viable
- how to poison? without snakebites you need a poison gem and you lose frenzies, gutting your damage
- how to get good ES? with no shield and difficult to get ES nodes you cant really get past 10k without spending 50ex

overall i think iff you want a CI bow build, you should go elemental. check out signal shot, its very good:

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1745340/page/1

How do I level ?

leveling progression is still valid, blade vortex/bladefall for easy leveling. If you need the leveling trees that I posted there, you better save those leveling trees because I think you will not be able to show them once 2.6 hits (new tree makes it unable to read old ones). Respec into this build once youre in dried lake and can get similar items like I had when i switched over. should be comfortable.

changes due to Deaths opus

We now dont need the 4th power charge from the bandit quest. so you get one extra point there. Opus is slower than reach, so for mapping you might want to use jewels with attackspeed, or rings with extra attackspeed, helping you speed up.

You therefore might consider getting attackspeed as a bonus from the cruel bandit quest (kraytin)

And for ascendancy points, i think it is better to straight for toxic delivery, and grabbing the power charge stuff

passive tree variant: classic version

(please open it with emmits 2.6 planner)

Spoiler

https://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAABAYBAABeAdwDHgUtBbUHmQguEJIRLxQgFHUWvxmOH0EhdiPTI_YmlSoLKlsrCiyFLlMwfDH6MjI1kjY9N9Q51EMxQzZEDUd-Sn1Mjkz_TZJN404qUEdRR1LsVUtW-lnwWhpbr13yXz9h4mKsZU1noGqMbAhsjG8nbztwUnTtdct293fXd-N4DXloefZ67311fyuEooTZhs6HdonTjDaNfY1-jb-PYJ2qoJ-i2aZXqKKpbqr4sNi0xbVItfK8b702vqfAGsEEwTPB2MLswzPIFMjwzZjTb9N-1CPYvdmG2sHb5-Of6mLrY-0_7YPuDu8O73rxivVv_o_-ug==

We got a bit more leech, thats about it. this is the classic version because it is easiest to gear (has the highest int) and the highest possible life.

Going into marauder area is definetely worth it, the life regen helps for blood rage, the stun threshold helps with stuns, and the flat base life/life bonus from strength is worth 100-200 life in the end. do not underestimate that.

Point blank is also ready to take. I recommend it for guardians and shaper __IF__ if you are able to go toe-to-toe with the boss youre fighting.

passive tree variant: Vaal Pact and higher damage

This version is for those who want to try something new. it grabs vaal pact and alot more damage. It has the highest damage possible for a KotF build (without sacrificing too much life).

Spoiler

https://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAABAYBAABeAO4B0QMeBS0FtQeZCC4QkhEvFHUVIBa_GYoZjh9BIXYi6iPTI_YmlSo4Kk0qWyyFLOkuUzB8MfoyATIyNZI2PTfUOdQ_J0MxQzZEDUrITI5M_02STipRR1LsVUtZbVnwWhpbr1-YYeJirGVNaoxsjG6qbydwUnTtdct2gnb3efZ9dX8rhKKExYazhs6J04w2jX2Nfo2_j2CXBpu1naqgn6EiokCi2aTCr-uw2LIZtMW00bVItfK3trvjvG-9Nr6nwTPC7MMzwzrEosgMyBTI8M8yz3rTb9N-1CPYvdmG2sHdDejW6mLrY-0_7YPvevT49W_2o_66

I recommend using
- a belly of the beast
- a rare helmet with the +2 barrage enchant with life on it
to compensate the life loss.
Also combine it with
- brinerot boots, they are insane for dps.

(The new Cherrubim's Maleficence is insane for damage on top of all of that, but imo you lose too much life compared to a belly to be worth it.)


while this guy moves alot slower, it has ALOT higher dps potential for killing the hardest of bosses. It also gets vaal pact to be able to handle high damage spikes better. It is not that great for mapping or uber lab (no regen, slower movement) but for guardians, shaper, uber atziri, this could be a very reliable killer.

passive tree variant: Your version ?

Since the tree is kinda new on the right side, I might have missed some detail or option for better min-maxing. feel free to post any suggestions/variants here. maybe you can fit in acuities and get poison from the gem, or use the cospri chest piece.

If posting any, please post trees with about 115 to 117 max. used points. its difficult to look at trees with 121 spent points, because barely anyone of us reaches >level 95. so 115-116 is better, especially so all our trees are sort of comparable to each other.

issues about crit chance

because of the nature of unstable infusion (10% chance to get a power charge on NON-crit) it is not desirable to plan with 95% crit chance without getting an extra source of power charge generation. You will never reach it, because at very high crit levels, you will always crit, eventually loosing your power charges and therefore crit chance. its better to plan with getting 78% and then getting capped with a diamond flask.

for hard bosses you can get that shield in the second slot that gives +2 charges on warcry use (e.g. use rallying cry) or that shield that gives power charge on trap throw. both help alot getting the inital power charges.

Point blank

It's amazing for end game boss killing, especially if you dont have dying sun/+2 barrage yet. it often gives you that extra boost that you needed to be able to kill it. However the downside is that you now need to stand pretty much in the face of that boss - therefore, you need to know what you're doing, but then you get rewarded with 50% more damage !

The new king in town

This sucker here is amazing. If you compare it to the current reach of the council, it has similar amounts of damage, attackspeed. but it has .5 higher crit. and it has 100% more damage at close range. thats insane, making it THE BEST bow for single target by far IF you are able to deal damage close range, i.e. point blank range.

short maths:

Reach pre-nerf with barrage, no extra projectiles: 8 projectiles
Chin sol with barrage, no extra: 4 projectiles, each deal 100% more so equal to 8 projectiles

Reach with +2 helmet, dying sun, +1 arrow quiver: 13 projectiles.
Chin sol with +2 helmet, dying sun, +1 arrow quiver: 9 projectiles BUT they deal 100% more damage each, so they are like shooting 18 projectiles. yep you heard it.

Therefore the extra *2 multiplier boosts it to pre-nerf reach levels without any extra projectiles. once you get all the extra ones, you will do more damage than any other bow in the game, even outperforming double-legacy reach !

I already did a shaper run today with chin sol and can confirm the damage is amazing.

The good thing about this bow is that currently it costs 1chaos. In the first few days of a league, it usually costs 10-20chaos, dropping down to 1c quickly... So its definetely something to look at for a starter, or a quick rush to a uber/guardian killer. especially combined with point blank, this bow does juicy damage. while it has no extra arrows, it has the best single target for any King of the Forest build. Once you have a dying sun for mapping , using a 6L lighting arrow with LMP as the 6th link will work just fine, or you just use a reach/opus for mapping and change over to Chin Sol for boss kills. Definetely fun to use !

So yeah with this we potentially deal more damage than ever before so FUCK the nerfs

my friend's opinion on all of this

"

cmphx wrote:

Spoiler

Hey guys, thanks for the vivid discussion and all your suggestions for tree/gear.


I am having troubles editing the main post since I have reached the max. number of characters :D I will go over it tomorrow when I have more time. For now, I will post the most important stuff here for you to read/comment on etc.

I have also quoted the amazingly helpful and insightful posts of Thaya and ggsbv who both reached very high levels (100 and 99) in breach and gave us some very helpful tips. you can read it on the first page of this thread, the second post has them listed.

Is this still viable in 2.6?

YES not much has changed, we got a 50% increased damage nerf from drillneck and reach is worse than deaths opus now. Therefore we use Deaths opus now ! everything else still the same.

I don't think anyone mentioned this before, but Chin Sol actually is the best bow for single target for this build (and already was) but noone tried it I guess. More on that later.

Reach nerf OMG??

yeah, RIP reach. it is now stricly worse than deaths opus. However, reach is still a great bow, I expect it to be very cheap because noone will want to use it, so reach is now budget version lol. Therefore we use Deaths opus now !

Gem setup for deaths opus

Barrage: same as before, Barrage + added chaos + crit strikes + pierce + slower + void manip ((in order of importance)

Lightning arrow: LA + added chaos + pierce + crit strikes + slower proj as a 5L. If you feel like those are not enough arrows, try lesser multiple projectiles instead of slower projectiles, or get another 6L. This kinda increases the cost of the build, for comforable end game mapping you want a 6L lighting arrow now. However map bosses are no issue and you could run barrage in the 5L during easy maps, should be no problem, and use a 6L lightning arrow.

Drillneck?

The quiver is still BIS in my opinon. evasion, attackspeed, life, 50% increased projectile damage that double dips, a HUGE flat physical roll, and very easy to get +1 arrow from (because its unique it means there are so many of them and you can count on it)

+1 arrow is by far the most important stat for endgame. A rare quiver could get crit multi, attackspeed, life, and thats it. flat elemental doesnt help us, the flat physical is tiny on a rare quiver, and there is no flat chaos which would have been best. 50% double dipping increased damage is by far better than 33% crit multi. Since we use opus now, crit multi becomes less desirable, since opus has 150% already, getting us way above 420 crit multi, so another 30% doesnt do as much as it would if we only had 300.

Drillneck is still a juicy damage boost and very well worth it. especially if you can get one with +1 arrow. Should you find a rare quiver that has +1 arrow and some nice stats, you can also use that.

Lioneye Jewel ?

While the jewel is nice for the claw stuff (the jewel converts melee modifier into bow modifier, so we would get claw crit and claw multi and claw leech from that place) it is not worth it point-wise. We do not need any more crit chance, the crit multi is nice though. we can get the leech for the same amount of points in the duelist area. overall i dont think it is worth it, it might be with a different bow build though.

What about going CI ?

I dont think its that good for this build, there are too many issues:

- stuns ?
- how to get frenzies? bloodrage is not very viable
- how to poison? without snakebites you need a poison gem and you lose frenzies, gutting your damage
- how to get good ES? with no shield and difficult to get ES nodes you cant really get past 10k without spending 50ex

overall i think iff you want a CI bow build, you should go elemental. check out signal shot, its very good:

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1745340/page/1

How do I level ?

leveling progression is still valid, blade vortex/bladefall for easy leveling. If you need the leveling trees that I posted there, you better save those leveling trees because I think you will not be able to show them once 2.6 hits (new tree makes it unable to read old ones). Respec into this build once youre in dried lake and can get similar items like I had when i switched over. should be comfortable.

changes due to Deaths opus

We now dont need the 4th power charge from the bandit quest. so you get one extra point there. Opus is slower than reach, so for mapping you might want to use jewels with attackspeed, or rings with extra attackspeed, helping you speed up.

You therefore might consider getting attackspeed as a bonus from the cruel bandit quest (kraytin)

And for ascendancy points, i think it is better to straight for toxic delivery, and grabbing the power charge stuff

passive tree variant: classic version

(please open it with emmits 2.6 planner)

Spoiler

https://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAABAYBAABeAdwDHgUtBbUHmQguEJIRLxQgFHUWvxmOH0EhdiPTI_YmlSoLKlsrCiyFLlMwfDH6MjI1kjY9N9Q51EMxQzZEDUd-Sn1Mjkz_TZJN404qUEdRR1LsVUtW-lnwWhpbr13yXz9h4mKsZU1noGqMbAhsjG8nbztwUnTtdct293fXd-N4DXloefZ67311fyuEooTZhs6HdonTjDaNfY1-jb-PYJ2qoJ-i2aZXqKKpbqr4sNi0xbVItfK8b702vqfAGsEEwTPB2MLswzPIFMjwzZjTb9N-1CPYvdmG2sHb5-Of6mLrY-0_7YPuDu8O73rxivVv_o_-ug==

We got a bit more leech, thats about it. this is the classic version because it is easiest to gear (has the highest int) and the highest possible life.

Going into marauder area is definetely worth it, the life regen helps for blood rage, the stun threshold helps with stuns, and the flat base life/life bonus from strength is worth 100-200 life in the end. do not underestimate that.

Point blank is also ready to take. I recommend it for guardians and shaper __IF__ if you are able to go toe-to-toe with the boss youre fighting.

passive tree variant: Vaal Pact and higher damage

This version is for those who want to try something new. it grabs vaal pact and alot more damage. It has the highest damage possible for a KotF build (without sacrificing too much life).

Spoiler

https://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAABAYBAABeAO4B0QMeBS0FtQeZCC4QkhEvFHUVIBa_GYoZjh9BIXYi6iPTI_YmlSo4Kk0qWyyFLOkuUzB8MfoyATIyNZI2PTfUOdQ_J0MxQzZEDUrITI5M_02STipRR1LsVUtZbVnwWhpbr1-YYeJirGVNaoxsjG6qbydwUnTtdct2gnb3efZ9dX8rhKKExYazhs6J04w2jX2Nfo2_j2CXBpu1naqgn6EiokCi2aTCr-uw2LIZtMW00bVItfK3trvjvG-9Nr6nwTPC7MMzwzrEosgMyBTI8M8yz3rTb9N-1CPYvdmG2sHdDejW6mLrY-0_7YPvevT49W_2o_66

I recommend using
- a belly of the beast
- a rare helmet with the +2 barrage enchant with life on it
to compensate the life loss.
Also combine it with
- brinerot boots, they are insane for dps.

(The new Cherrubim's Maleficence is insane for damage on top of all of that, but imo you lose too much life compared to a belly to be worth it.)


while this guy moves alot slower, it has ALOT higher dps potential for killing the hardest of bosses. It also gets vaal pact to be able to handle high damage spikes better. It is not that great for mapping or uber lab (no regen, slower movement) but for guardians, shaper, uber atziri, this could be a very reliable killer.

passive tree variant: Your version ?

Since the tree is kinda new on the right side, I might have missed some detail or option for better min-maxing. feel free to post any suggestions/variants here. maybe you can fit in acuities and get poison from the gem, or use the cospri chest piece.

If posting any, please post trees with about 115 to 117 max. used points. its difficult to look at trees with 121 spent points, because barely anyone of us reaches >level 95. so 115-116 is better, especially so all our trees are sort of comparable to each other.

issues about crit chance

because of the nature of unstable infusion (10% chance to get a power charge on NON-crit) it is not desirable to plan with 95% crit chance without getting an extra source of power charge generation. You will never reach it, because at very high crit levels, you will always crit, eventually loosing your power charges and therefore crit chance. its better to plan with getting 78% and then getting capped with a diamond flask.

for hard bosses you can get that shield in the second slot that gives +2 charges on warcry use (e.g. use rallying cry) or that shield that gives power charge on trap throw. both help alot getting the inital power charges.

Point blank

It's amazing for end game boss killing, especially if you dont have dying sun/+2 barrage yet. it often gives you that extra boost that you needed to be able to kill it. However the downside is that you now need to stand pretty much in the face of that boss - therefore, you need to know what you're doing, but then you get rewarded with 50% more damage !

The new king in town

This sucker here is amazing. If you compare it to the current reach of the council, it has similar amounts of damage, attackspeed. but it has .5 higher crit. and it has 100% more damage at close range. thats insane, making it THE BEST bow for single target by far IF you are able to deal damage close range, i.e. point blank range.

short maths:

Reach pre-nerf with barrage, no extra projectiles: 8 projectiles
Chin sol with barrage, no extra: 4 projectiles, each deal 100% more so equal to 8 projectiles

Reach with +2 helmet, dying sun, +1 arrow quiver: 13 projectiles.
Chin sol with +2 helmet, dying sun, +1 arrow quiver: 9 projectiles BUT they deal 100% more damage each, so they are like shooting 18 projectiles. yep you heard it.

Therefore the extra *2 multiplier boosts it to pre-nerf reach levels without any extra projectiles. once you get all the extra ones, you will do more damage than any other bow in the game, even outperforming double-legacy reach !

I already did a shaper run today with chin sol and can confirm the damage is amazing.

The good thing about this bow is that currently it costs 1chaos. In the first few days of a league, it usually costs 10-20chaos, dropping down to 1c quickly... So its definetely something to look at for a starter, or a quick rush to a uber/guardian killer. especially combined with point blank, this bow does juicy damage. while it has no extra arrows, it has the best single target for any King of the Forest build. Once you have a dying sun for mapping , using a 6L lighting arrow with LMP as the 6th link will work just fine, or you just use a reach/opus for mapping and change over to Chin Sol for boss kills. Definetely fun to use !

So yeah with this we potentially deal more damage than ever before so FUCK the nerfs

my friend's opinion on all of this

"

dguay wrote:

Why still use Increased Crit Strikes if we don't want 95% crit chance and we're using Opus?

Isn't it a good idea to use LMP instead?