freaking lab leaking into the game under the guise of boss rework!

"

Emphasy wrote:

Also waiting on Traps is not so much different than waiting on Flame Bearers or similar things or zombies leaving Tar on dead.

Actually, it's completely different (and I don't wait on flame bearers, I get out of range, nor do I stand around in tar, I get out of it). Also, just for the record, burning ground damage is completely different from trap damage.

I was never a fan of desecrated ground especially in green tinted maps.

"

FixLabPLSGGG wrote:

I was never a fan of desecrated ground especially in green tinted maps.

That's an example of category A, yes. It's also not a kind of challenge GGG intended to create, obviously. It was just an oversight. Which isn't a coincidence: oversights are sources of category A challenges in many games.

@Emphasy

I don't think your examples fit cleanly into category A. They are not "let's make this a pain in the ass just so the player will feel relief when it is over." They have other purposes, such as the creation of tension, anticipation, etc. Tar is borderline, I suppose. As is being cursed with temporal chains for an entire map. Though both of those arguably have other purposes besides just pissing off the player so s/he is relieved when the experience is over.

Tetris! That is new. :D

Why only retro games are on the blast? Shouldn't we include some newer games, for sake of completion?

"

e1337donkey wrote:

You guys complaining about the lab don't even know why the lab sucks to begin with. The lab has these trap gauntlets that have you duck and weave through them. You don't engage them with your skill gems, you don't build for them with your passive skill tree, and your items don't mean very much against these traps. The core game itself doesn't mesh with lab.

This boss however is different, because the fire trap is supporting the boss in the room. Your engaging an enemy with your skills, skill tree build, items. While also dealing with a switch/trap mechanic. This is the kind of fight the lab should have had more of.

this guy gets it, cheers

"

Razis wrote:

"

e1337donkey wrote:

You guys complaining about the lab don't even know why the lab sucks to begin with. The lab has these trap gauntlets that have you duck and weave through them. You don't engage them with your skill gems, you don't build for them with your passive skill tree, and your items don't mean very much against these traps. The core game itself doesn't mesh with lab.

This boss however is different, because the fire trap is supporting the boss in the room. Your engaging an enemy with your skills, skill tree build, items. While also dealing with a switch/trap mechanic. This is the kind of fight the lab should have had more of.

this guy gets it, cheers

Agreed, traps supporting monsters is a wonderful formula. This is true arpg. Unlike the screens full of boring, irritating, and tedious traps that is more like Frogger or Prince of Persia than it is arpg style play.

"

e1337donkey wrote:

You guys complaining about the lab don't even know why the lab sucks to begin with. The lab has these trap gauntlets that have you duck and weave through them. You don't engage them with your skill gems,...

-> Leap slam, WB, L.Warp, Blink arrow

"

...you don't build for them with your passive skill tree...

-> Life regen, ES recharge, HP pool, armor...

"

...and your items don't mean very much against these traps.

-> Movespeed, armor, phys. reduction flasks, HP flasks, QS


Just pointing out glaring BS.

The more I read the "feedback", the more convinced I am that a good portion of the Lab-haters havent played it more than once or twice...

"

Turtledove wrote:

"

Razis wrote:

"

e1337donkey wrote:

You guys complaining about the lab don't even know why the lab sucks to begin with. The lab has these trap gauntlets that have you duck and weave through them. You don't engage them with your skill gems, you don't build for them with your passive skill tree, and your items don't mean very much against these traps. The core game itself doesn't mesh with lab.

This boss however is different, because the fire trap is supporting the boss in the room. Your engaging an enemy with your skills, skill tree build, items. While also dealing with a switch/trap mechanic. This is the kind of fight the lab should have had more of.

this guy gets it, cheers

Agreed, traps supporting monsters is a wonderful formula. This is true arpg. Unlike the screens full of boring, irritating, and tedious traps that is more like Frogger or Prince of Persia than it is arpg style play.

note that this is coming from a guy that got his account on probation for basically being a 'spamming lab hater'. See? We're actually not unreasonable and might have a point here if you think about it for a second, before you start spamming "git gud".

"

morbo wrote:

"

e1337donkey wrote:

You guys complaining about the lab don't even know why the lab sucks to begin with. The lab has these trap gauntlets that have you duck and weave through them. You don't engage them with your skill gems,...

-> Leap slam, WB, L.Warp, Blink arrow

"

...you don't build for them with your passive skill tree...

-> Life regen, ES recharge, HP pool, armor...

"

...and your items don't mean very much against these traps.

-> Movespeed, armor, phys. reduction flasks, HP flasks, QS


Just pointing out glaring BS.

The more I read the "feedback", the more convinced I am that a good portion of the Lab-haters havent played it more than once or twice...

his point was actually that traps do % ehp damage, but you guys both made it superficial and easy to pick holes in.

/edit: going off this thread, getting sucked into the lab arguments again, silly

"

Razis wrote:

his point was actually that traps do % ehp damage, but you guys both made it superficial and easy to pick holes in.

He was trying to "prove" that traps can't be mitigated by build & gear, which is obviously false. All this time spent shitposting would be better spent learning the Lab and it's mechanics. No wonder GGG doesn't take you seriously - with the exception of a few people, most anti-Lab posts seem to be just ramblings & dishonest assumptions.

I didn't like the Lab much at first, citing similar reasons: backtracking, too long, hard to see ahead in trap gauntlets, etc. Then I played it 20, 30, 40 times and learned layouts, trap gauntlets, adapted flasks & learned Izaro mechanics...

It's the same with every new addition GGG makes: first we complain it's a clusterfvk, then we learn it and it's not a huge problem any more (in between GGG nerfs it a little, because it's always overtuned at first)