Lab is [Removed by Support]- some answers and feedback

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FixLabPLSGGG wrote:

Do not worry too much about the hostility here at GGG. They will not even see it anyways. They are too busy monitoring reddit and actually communicating there. This forums is just a wasteland for the ones who remain vigilant to be at their actual forums but they packed up and left ages ago never to be seen again.

There were many complaints on reddit about the labyrinth when it first came out, but it's not a useful place for keeping the issue alive in the long run. I do take GGG at their word that they want feedback and pay attention to their own forums, even if posts on reddit are much more likely to get a response.

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mark1030 wrote:

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FixLabPLSGGG wrote:

Do not worry too much about the hostility here at GGG. They will not even see it anyways. They are too busy monitoring reddit and actually communicating there. This forums is just a wasteland for the ones who remain vigilant to be at their actual forums but they packed up and left ages ago never to be seen again.

You'd think if your goal was to be heard by GGG and you thought reddit is where that was most likely to happen, that you'd post your feedback on reddit. What's stopping you from doing the logical thing?

Obvious reason : a minority of QQers will most likely get downvoted to Oblivion,.

The Reddit system is designed to sort the pleasant lies to the top and unpleasant truths to the bottom. You might, maybe, get a suggestion upvoted - but community suggestions are 99.99% shit because gamers aren't game designers any more than readers are authors, so many popular suggestions are horrible if actually implemented. Gamer feedback, in contrast, is useful - you know if you liked or disliked what you've already played - but any feedback which is critical of anything, or even balanced instead of glowingly positive, will be systematically ostracized. I don't know if I could possibly devise a community communication system which is worse for legitimate feedback purposes than Reddit.

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ShaUrley wrote:

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FixLabPLSGGG wrote:

Do not worry too much about the hostility here at GGG. They will not even see it anyways. They are too busy monitoring reddit and actually communicating there. This forums is just a wasteland for the ones who remain vigilant to be at their actual forums but they packed up and left ages ago never to be seen again.

There were many complaints on reddit about the labyrinth when it first came out, but it's not a useful place for keeping the issue alive in the long run. I do take GGG at their word that they want feedback and pay attention to their own forums, even if posts on reddit are much more likely to get a response.

A lot of those complaints had to do with things GGG has addressed, like the damage ES builds take, having to do the trials on all characters and normal+cruel izaro being too hard.

People post about trade improvements all the time and that shit gets upvoted, if you think that the lab is anywhere near as big of an issue as trade or whatever, a weekly thread about it would get upvoted if enough people share your opinion, more then likely though people aren't posting on reddit because they would get no support and downvoted into the depths of the earth.

Unfort. we don't have that option here on the forums.

EDIT:

that guys post is quite funny, some of his complaints are about how hard the uber lab is, something that you do need to complete on a character, but not something that needs to be farmable on all characters. So consider this for a second, those builds that struggle to do the lab on a farm level status, now have incentive to create an additional build to do that piece of content. Similar to in the past how people would have builds that can do all sorts of different challenges their main builds would suffer at.

Then consider the fact that even if it is more favorable for a specific build to do. People can work around and play around the downsides of the lab. Take my BV character for example, I have no liferegen, I have no armor, except with flask, I have no endurance charges and overall I have a crappy amount of mitigation without flask up. Now how do I do the fight, even buffed, well I plan around it. I use things like decoy totem, which the boss absolutely loves. I use blind linked with my golem, which is decent at helping him overall do less damage. Hell I could have put up a curse on blasphemy, but I didn't. The difficult part of uber izaro is indeed fighting him while he is buffed, if you learn the mechanics of the fight, you know something that people will have to do for the new bosses in atlas of worlds, you can figure out how best to kill him WITH YOUR BUILD, regardless of the build you have.

People have this odd conception that each challenge should be equal to all builds, that is impossible without homogonizing the game. The first time we EVER get a more melee friendly piece of content in the game and people are crying about it. This speaks volumes about the playerbase of the game today and even moreso on how far GGG has drifted from the original gameplay. It is perfectly fine to improve the game over time, but some of these changes have come at the cost of game's original design. The lab is the once piece (of recent memory) that takes a step back and adds another layer of depth and character planning in the game. This is why the lab is crucial for AC points, this is why the lab is good for the game. That isn't to say GGG should just keep adding stuff players must do to get more power, if anything I'd say stop doing that, its to say keep adding content and challenges that require a player to approach the challenge differently, rather then just M2 with whatever ranged ability you have or frost wall cheese the shit out of something.

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goetzjam wrote:

The first time we EVER get a more melee friendly piece of content in the game and people are crying about it. This speaks volumes about the playerbase of the game today and even moreso on how far GGG has drifted from the original gameplay.

Um... no. The Lab is not a "melee friendly" place. It's a "life regen friendly" place, or a "flask friendly" place, or a "Whirling Blades friendly place," but those aren't equivalent.

I read the rest of the post and had no problems. I do think the Lab is overly redundant, but there's value in what it does the first time (before doing it again, and again) - a value which you've articulated well.

Prince of Persia? Well, that is new. Lab is already Frogger and Mario.

Dominus damn, PoE is so many games at the same time!

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goetzjam wrote:

A lot of those complaints had to do with things GGG has addressed, like the damage ES builds take, having to do the trials on all characters and normal+cruel izaro being too hard.

A lot of complaints were about those things, but many other complaints were the same as the ones that continue here (as you can see in the last paragraph of the linked reddit post).

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The first time we EVER get a more melee friendly piece of content in the game and people are crying about it.

Yes, melee needs much more love in PoE than it's got, and (although I prefer to play ranged characters) I'd be glad to see that happen. It does seem quite likely to me that GGG wanted to help melee characters when they designed the lab, but putting the ascendancy classes behind the lab wasn't necessary and (in my opinion) was a dreadful decision.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

The first time we EVER get a more melee friendly piece of content in the game and people are crying about it. This speaks volumes about the playerbase of the game today and even moreso on how far GGG has drifted from the original gameplay.

Um... no. The Lab is not a "melee friendly" place. It's a "life regen friendly" place, or a "flask friendly" place, or a "Whirling Blades friendly place," but those aren't equivalent.

I read the rest of the post and had no problems. I do think the Lab is overly redundant, but there's value in what it does the first time (before doing it again, and again) - a value which you've articulated well.

I think that he was mainly refering to Izaro.
Like, if you understand the pattern a minimum, you don't need regen, it's just a bonus.
Everybody uses movement skills anyway, and flasks.


The difficult part is definitely Izaro.

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Perq wrote:

Prince of Persia? Well, that is new. Lab is already Frogger and Mario.

Dominus damn, PoE is so many games at the same time!

Actually the first time Labyrinth was said to be like the Prince of Persia was in a preview of Ascendancy prior to the release.