Over 430 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1040 posters in support DONE!!!!!

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Shovelcut wrote:

I'm pretty sure we're all aware that there is a small handful of people posting on alt accounts, nobody in this current discussion has even implied that it is more than a few. So I'll just chalk it up to you missing our point. :)

With this new piece of information you provide, I have to agree with you: I do not understand your point. What IS your point?

If you don't think more than a handful of people are acting in bad faith and dishonestly pretending to be more than one person, then this whole scene about "that's not a legitimate list, there are alts on that list, etc." becomes completely irrelevant.

So what is the point of spending so much time on that topic?

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gibbousmoon wrote:

If you don't think more than a handful of people are acting in bad faith and dishonestly pretending to be more than one person, then this whole scene about "that's not a legitimate list, there are alts on that list, etc." becomes completely irrelevant.

You obviously haven't been paying attention. Your opinion on this is completely irrelevant because it's not even what we're discussing at this point.

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gibbousmoon wrote:

What IS your point?

If you haven't gotten it with it being spelled out over the course of like 3 pages there is little hope that you'll get it with any further explanation but I'll try anyway.

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I started looking at some other data. An "o" after the name means the account is older than March 2016. A "$" after the name means that a supporter title is in the profile. An "*" after the name means that neither of those is the case. This was done in response to paranoid people that said I or someone else was creating alt accounts just to up the numbers on the list. This irrational argument has been soundly laid to rest because there are fewer than 4% of the accounts with an *. None of the above (o,$ nor *) means that I haven't gotten to that part of the list yet.

The quote above this is completely dishonest and wholly useless. There is absolutely no way that Turtle could ever know anything he's claiming as fact in that quote. This is the only thing that we've been discussing at this point. And the claims that there are only 3 or 4 alt accounts which are proven because of this "other data".

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gibbousmoon wrote:

So what is the point of spending so much time on that topic?

-In a nutshell- I've spent quite a bit of time coming up with the analysis used in the OP so that we would have some factual numbers to make this thread and further laby discussions honest (in regard to numbers of people posting). That has been undermined by the current dishonest path that the OP has taken and I feel strongly about it. To top it off, upon calling out the deception I'm accused of dancing around the facts while the accuser is literally dancing around the actual facts. We wouldn't have had to waste so much time on this but someone just likes to avoid actual conversation to make his own accusations while ignoring the actual topic of the conversation.

That enough for you?

If not, feel free to go back through everything. Or not, I personally don't care at this point.

3.0 can't come fast enough...

Not to derail the discussion on alts and multiple-thread-starters (though that might be a good thing ;) and somewhat on the topic of this thread, there's a recent post on reddit complaining about how tedious it is to play through the game three times. The poster also mentions parenthetically at the end the "abomination known as the labyrinth".

In the comments, one CAPSONLY is relieved to discover he's not the only one who hates the lab:

https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/5lap5r/3_playthroughs_every_single_time_is_dreadful/dbuac8j/?

Perhaps there's a slight chance that Chris will see that reddit thread and pause a little (because he sure as hell won't see this one).

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Shovelcut wrote:

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gibbousmoon wrote:

If you don't think more than a handful of people are acting in bad faith and dishonestly pretending to be more than one person, then this whole scene about "that's not a legitimate list, there are alts on that list, etc." becomes completely irrelevant.

You obviously haven't been paying attention. Your opinion on this is completely irrelevant because it's not even what we're discussing at this point.

Ah, the classic "I can't provide a legitimate answer to your query so I will attempt to insult you instead" response.

Your words and attitude reflect upon you far more than upon anyone else, Shovelcut. Take from that what you will.

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gibbousmoon wrote:

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Shovelcut wrote:

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gibbousmoon wrote:

If you don't think more than a handful of people are acting in bad faith and dishonestly pretending to be more than one person, then this whole scene about "that's not a legitimate list, there are alts on that list, etc." becomes completely irrelevant.

You obviously haven't been paying attention. Your opinion on this is completely irrelevant because it's not even what we're discussing at this point.

Ah, the classic "I can't provide a legitimate answer to your query so I will attempt to insult you instead" response.

Your words and attitude reflect upon you far more than upon anyone else, Shovelcut. Take from that what you will.

For several pages we have clearly been disputing the claim that "known fact" instead of "I think" is used. Nothing else. You guys keep pretending we are arguing about the number of alt account. We are not. We are arguing that turtle claims he knows for a fact it's a specific number when he is just assuming. His method of proof is unreliable and doesn't prove shit as I've shown by revealing an alt account of mine that by his standard would be a legit unique person eith a "o" and "$" rating. If turtle would just replace his words from "known fact" to "I think", the last several pages trying to explain the issue would not exist. And you accusing somebody of "I can't provide a legit response so I'll insult you instead" is rich when you've tried to insult us by saying we're paranoid about how many alt accounts there are. We don't care how many there are. We don't care if there are none at all. We only are calling for somebody to stop staying they have "facts" and "proof" about how many there are. The quote marks are because those words were used by the person making the claim, not meant to be sarcastic air quotes. And those words are the ones in dispute. But you keep acting like our argument is "how many", which is the only argument you can respond to.

i dont like the labyrinth.
in essence league i played to lv 86 and didnt even finish normal lab :D.

one of the reasons why i dont like the labyrinth is because it is forced on me as part of my char progression.

another one is that i mostly play as scion and the scion ascendancy is the worst, scion might as well have no ascendancy compared to what the other classes get.
so i play content wich i dont like but it is forced on me only then to feel bad because the reward is bad

then one other issue is that the lab by itself is nice actually with traps and hidden rooms and puzzles to unlock doors for supply/treasure chests, but the game just does not support that kind of gameplay because the movement and the movement skills feel so bad and are so inaccurate.

in Perandus league there were at least challenges to explore the labyrinth now ist just rushing through for the points and/or the emperor treasure chest/s.

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mark1030 wrote:

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gibbousmoon wrote:

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Shovelcut wrote:

You obviously haven't been paying attention. Your opinion on this is completely irrelevant because it's not even what we're discussing at this point.

Ah, the classic "I can't provide a legitimate answer to your query so I will attempt to insult you instead" response.

Your words and attitude reflect upon you far more than upon anyone else, Shovelcut. Take from that what you will.

For several pages we have clearly been disputing the claim that "known fact" instead of "I think" is used. Nothing else. You guys keep pretending we are arguing about the number of alt account. We are not. We are arguing that turtle claims he knows for a fact it's a specific number when he is just assuming. His method of proof is unreliable and doesn't prove shit as I've shown by revealing an alt account of mine that by his standard would be a legit unique person eith a "o" and "$" rating. If turtle would just replace his words from "known fact" to "I think", the last several pages trying to explain the issue would not exist. And you accusing somebody of "I can't provide a legit response so I'll insult you instead" is rich when you've tried to insult us by saying we're paranoid about how many alt accounts there are. We don't care how many there are. We don't care if there are none at all. We only are calling for somebody to stop staying they have "facts" and "proof" about how many there are. The quote marks are because those words were used by the person making the claim, not meant to be sarcastic air quotes. And those words are the ones in dispute. But you keep acting like our argument is "how many", which is the only argument you can respond to.

I see. So this entire vendetta is about making sure one poster recants his words, and nothing else?

Forgive me for assuming it was something more, um, substantive and relevant to the thread. I will try not to make that same mistake again.

I genuinely do my best to assume the best intentions of others, especially when it comes to communications on the internet, which are often ambiguous. So I assumed that you and Shovelcut weren't REALLY spending the good part of eight thread pages on such a ridiculous mission.

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gibbousmoon wrote:

I see. So this entire vendetta is about making sure one poster recants his words, and nothing else?

Forgive me for assuming it was something more, um, substantive and relevant to the thread. I will try not to make that same mistake again.

I genuinely do my best to assume the best intentions of others, especially when it comes to communications on the internet, which are often ambiguous. So I assumed that you and Shovelcut weren't REALLY spending the good part of eight thread pages on such a ridiculous mission.

It's not a vendetta. It's about calling somebody out on BS claims that are blatently false. If you don't think honesty, integrity, and truthfulness are important in this thread, then so be it. I do. Don't state something as provable and factual when it's not provable at all. It's a guess. An assumption. The only reason it became a big deal is you guys kept ignoring that and pretending we were arguing another point that you had your response all ready to go.

It's funny that people blame Chris for not not being truthful about a "vocal minority", yet they can make shit up and call it a fact. And others go along with it as if it were provable.

Haven't been on the forums or played the game in awhile, just noticed I wasn't marked as a supporter in the OP list of thread starters.

Just showing my supporter titles and letting the Devs know, I'm still not coming back until they get rid of requiring the lab for ascendancy points.

also made my profile Public again if anyone wanna lurk it.

Have fun exiles its a shame this drove me away from the game.

Well sadly it is a proven fact that just claiming random things and make people feel they are the truth is enough to become POTUS, so why shouldn't it work on something as meaningless as the lab in PoE.

We got into a culture were facts are some annoying background noise and everything is driven by feelings, mostly your own. You can make pretty much anything if it aligns with how someone feels he will believe you because checking if what you are saying is actually true has a lot of negative side effects, not only might it be false and he would realize the much less pleasent reality but it would also require a bit of effort.

So a few actual facts about the list:

a) There are valid concerns raised in there
b) Many threads are from the early days of the lab and the issues that are mentioned in there are already fixed
c) There are some threads in there that don't actually talk about the labyrinth

To show an example, he lists threads of people complaining that they like the labyrinth but are annoyed by having to find the trials in maps and would prefer having easier access to be able to do the uber lab earlier. That isn't exactly a complain about the lab and such a thread isn't really usable for anything but to make a request to make trials less random (appearing trials could be biased based on which ones you are missing).

He essentially just mixes valid concerns about certain issues with his agenda to remove the lab or move the ascendancy out of there which isn't what a lot of those threads are about.