Over 430 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1040 posters in support DONE!!!!!

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mark1030 wrote:

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gibbousmoon wrote:

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Shovelcut wrote:

You obviously haven't been paying attention. Your opinion on this is completely irrelevant because it's not even what we're discussing at this point.

Ah, the classic "I can't provide a legitimate answer to your query so I will attempt to insult you instead" response.

Your words and attitude reflect upon you far more than upon anyone else, Shovelcut. Take from that what you will.

For several pages we have clearly been disputing the claim that "known fact" instead of "I think" is used. Nothing else. You guys keep pretending we are arguing about the number of alt account. We are not. We are arguing that turtle claims he knows for a fact it's a specific number when he is just assuming. His method of proof is unreliable and doesn't prove shit as I've shown by revealing an alt account of mine that by his standard would be a legit unique person eith a "o" and "$" rating. If turtle would just replace his words from "known fact" to "I think", the last several pages trying to explain the issue would not exist. And you accusing somebody of "I can't provide a legit response so I'll insult you instead" is rich when you've tried to insult us by saying we're paranoid about how many alt accounts there are. We don't care how many there are. We don't care if there are none at all. We only are calling for somebody to stop staying they have "facts" and "proof" about how many there are. The quote marks are because those words were used by the person making the claim, not meant to be sarcastic air quotes. And those words are the ones in dispute. But you keep acting like our argument is "how many", which is the only argument you can respond to.

I see. So this entire vendetta is about making sure one poster recants his words, and nothing else?

Forgive me for assuming it was something more, um, substantive and relevant to the thread. I will try not to make that same mistake again.

I genuinely do my best to assume the best intentions of others, especially when it comes to communications on the internet, which are often ambiguous. So I assumed that you and Shovelcut weren't REALLY spending the good part of eight thread pages on such a ridiculous mission.

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gibbousmoon wrote:

I see. So this entire vendetta is about making sure one poster recants his words, and nothing else?

Forgive me for assuming it was something more, um, substantive and relevant to the thread. I will try not to make that same mistake again.

I genuinely do my best to assume the best intentions of others, especially when it comes to communications on the internet, which are often ambiguous. So I assumed that you and Shovelcut weren't REALLY spending the good part of eight thread pages on such a ridiculous mission.

It's not a vendetta. It's about calling somebody out on BS claims that are blatently false. If you don't think honesty, integrity, and truthfulness are important in this thread, then so be it. I do. Don't state something as provable and factual when it's not provable at all. It's a guess. An assumption. The only reason it became a big deal is you guys kept ignoring that and pretending we were arguing another point that you had your response all ready to go.

It's funny that people blame Chris for not not being truthful about a "vocal minority", yet they can make shit up and call it a fact. And others go along with it as if it were provable.

Haven't been on the forums or played the game in awhile, just noticed I wasn't marked as a supporter in the OP list of thread starters.

Just showing my supporter titles and letting the Devs know, I'm still not coming back until they get rid of requiring the lab for ascendancy points.

also made my profile Public again if anyone wanna lurk it.

Have fun exiles its a shame this drove me away from the game.

Well sadly it is a proven fact that just claiming random things and make people feel they are the truth is enough to become POTUS, so why shouldn't it work on something as meaningless as the lab in PoE.

We got into a culture were facts are some annoying background noise and everything is driven by feelings, mostly your own. You can make pretty much anything if it aligns with how someone feels he will believe you because checking if what you are saying is actually true has a lot of negative side effects, not only might it be false and he would realize the much less pleasent reality but it would also require a bit of effort.

So a few actual facts about the list:

a) There are valid concerns raised in there
b) Many threads are from the early days of the lab and the issues that are mentioned in there are already fixed
c) There are some threads in there that don't actually talk about the labyrinth

To show an example, he lists threads of people complaining that they like the labyrinth but are annoyed by having to find the trials in maps and would prefer having easier access to be able to do the uber lab earlier. That isn't exactly a complain about the lab and such a thread isn't really usable for anything but to make a request to make trials less random (appearing trials could be biased based on which ones you are missing).

He essentially just mixes valid concerns about certain issues with his agenda to remove the lab or move the ascendancy out of there which isn't what a lot of those threads are about.

To me this has just turned into a joke thread. This thread is like the guy you pass walking to work in the city with the "End poverty, raise the minimum wage to $50 an hour" sign. "Look at my petition , I have a thousand signatures of people that agree with me!

There is light at the end of the tunnel for the crusaders though. Eventually (perhaps a few hundred years) the minimum wage may get to $50 , so if we find a cure for death, he may live long enough to say "SEE they agreed with me!"

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ampdecay wrote:

Haven't been on the forums or played the game in awhile, just noticed I wasn't marked as a supporter in the OP list of thread starters.

Just showing my supporter titles and letting the Devs know, I'm still not coming back until they get rid of requiring the lab for ascendancy points.

also made my profile Public again if anyone wanna lurk it.

Have fun exiles its a shame this drove me away from the game.

I have bought plenty of games that moved in a direction , or implemented a feature I didn't like. I left my feedback, and moved on if it didn't change. You seem to have done the same. Props to you. You understand what feedback is all about.

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stardustjenny wrote:

i dont like the labyrinth.
in essence league i played to lv 86 and didnt even finish normal lab :D.

one of the reasons why i dont like the labyrinth is because it is forced on me as part of my char progression.

another one is that i mostly play as scion and the scion ascendancy is the worst, scion might as well have no ascendancy compared to what the other classes get.
so i play content wich i dont like but it is forced on me only then to feel bad because the reward is bad

then one other issue is that the lab by itself is nice actually with traps and hidden rooms and puzzles to unlock doors for supply/treasure chests, but the game just does not support that kind of gameplay because the movement and the movement skills feel so bad and are so inaccurate.

in Perandus league there were at least challenges to explore the labyrinth now ist just rushing through for the points and/or the emperor treasure chest/s.

Thank you for posting your opinion on labyrinth. You're number 693 on the list. We don't talk frequently in these threads about the movement skill problem in the labyrinth but, it's a real problem that is felt by most everyone I suspect, at least if they dislike labyrinth. It is what I consider part of the bad game play in labyrinth. The classic example is a "cubicle" with a lever at the end of the cubicle and spike traps at the entrance. There's a saw blade running back and forth outside the cubicle wall. One clicks on the lever, the spikes pop up immediately after the click and the toon is blocked from the lever so instead runs along the saw blade outside the cubicle wall. GGG gets an extra slurry of cuss words from me at that point.
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edit:

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ampdecay wrote:

Haven't been on the forums or played the game in awhile, just noticed I wasn't marked as a supporter in the OP list of thread starters.

Just showing my supporter titles and letting the Devs know, I'm still not coming back until they get rid of requiring the lab for ascendancy points.

also made my profile Public again if anyone wanna lurk it.

Have fun exiles its a shame this drove me away from the game.

Just to be clear to others here. Ampdecay was on the list but I had not indicated that he had a supporter title on his account name. I have fixed that now.

Thank you ampdecay. Here's my assessment of the "fix" for the problem. GGG is a smart and successful company that wants to continue that historical trend. I thought that if they were going to fix it using one of the cheaper methods similar to some of the proposals in the OP of SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas] then we might see the fix in 2.4 (IIRC). So at that point was stating in the forums that I was hoping the fix would be in there. Of course that didn't happen. So that meant to me that they had likely decided instead to move the points behind a new challenge. Well 3.0 is a major release with major changes. They have to make some changes to the allocation of the points anyway since it appears they will be removing a difficulty level anyway. The point being, check back again for 3.0.

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Emphasy wrote:

He essentially just mixes valid concerns about certain issues with his agenda to remove the lab or move the ascendancy out of there which isn't what a lot of those threads are about.

I have just documented the threads as specified in the OP. Those specifications were designed in large part to minimize the required judgment on my part for whether or not a thread should be included. I didn't want to be a judge. I want to be more of a historian in this role. I am not the person that created the threads. If you want a list that communicates different things then make you own list.

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mark1030 wrote:

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gibbousmoon wrote:

I see. So this entire vendetta is about making sure one poster recants his words, and nothing else?

Forgive me for assuming it was something more, um, substantive and relevant to the thread. I will try not to make that same mistake again.

I genuinely do my best to assume the best intentions of others, especially when it comes to communications on the internet, which are often ambiguous. So I assumed that you and Shovelcut weren't REALLY spending the good part of eight thread pages on such a ridiculous mission.

It's not a vendetta. It's about calling somebody out on BS claims that are blatently false. If you don't think honesty, integrity, and truthfulness are important in this thread, then so be it. I do. Don't state something as provable and factual when it's not provable at all. It's a guess. An assumption. The only reason it became a big deal is you guys kept ignoring that and pretending we were arguing another point that you had your response all ready to go.

It's funny that people blame Chris for not not being truthful about a "vocal minority", yet they can make shit up and call it a fact. And others go along with it as if it were provable.

What have I said that is blatantly false? You seem to have done a poor job communicating this since the only thing I can think of is you or Shovelcut falsely claiming that I'm being deceitful because I have alt-accounts on the list. Which is really a very stupid claim IMHO. Someone with an alt-account has as much right to their opinion as anyone else. That doesn't mean they have two account names in the list.

How about this, I will go back and send a PM to account name DC2K16. He's the last person I added that I thought was an alt-account. I'll let him know that I'd like only one account name per person. I'll ask him in the PM to please send me a PM from any account he would like the account name removed from the list in order to try to meet this goal of one account name per person. Then you fellows can give me a list of other accounts names and if I think it is reasonable and not some silliness to get me to meaninglessly harass me and a bunch of other people then I'll do the same.

If I have still not properly guessed what you're talking about then let me know or not. When I thought you were being paranoid I could have a goal of trying to ease your fears so that you could begin the healing process. Since that is apparently not the issue you guys have been whining about then I see no point or goal. I really am getting tired of these ridiculous exchanges about alt accounts that have no apparent goal.

edit:
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Open letter:
Hi DC2K16,

I'm sending this PM to let you know that my list of account names of people that have stated their opinion that labyrinth has problems that are alienating to people or at least need to be fixed, has a goal of only one account name per person in the list. In order to better meet this goal I'm explicitly asking some people to send me a PM from any account name that they would like removed from the list. https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1702621

Kind regards,
Turtledove
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second edit:
break down of symbols after account names This was done at the current count at 693 names in the list
* 23
$ or o$ 323
o$ 316
$ 7
o 344
+ 161

Note that there are two account names that had apparently been deleted in between the time that they were added to the list and this latest analysis was done, then there's an account name "Deleted" which is a GGG forum place holder. Those are not included in any of these counts but instead were kept separate from these counts, except for a + on Deleted.

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mark1030 wrote:

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gibbousmoon wrote:

I see. So this entire vendetta is about making sure one poster recants his words, and nothing else?

Forgive me for assuming it was something more, um, substantive and relevant to the thread. I will try not to make that same mistake again.

I genuinely do my best to assume the best intentions of others, especially when it comes to communications on the internet, which are often ambiguous. So I assumed that you and Shovelcut weren't REALLY spending the good part of eight thread pages on such a ridiculous mission.

It's not a vendetta. It's about calling somebody out on BS claims that are blatently false. If you don't think honesty, integrity, and truthfulness are important in this thread, then so be it. I do. Don't state something as provable and factual when it's not provable at all. It's a guess. An assumption. The only reason it became a big deal is you guys kept ignoring that and pretending we were arguing another point that you had your response all ready to go.

An ongoing argument

1. against a single individual
2. which is off-topic and irrelevant to the thread's topic (to the extent you are telling the truth when you say it is not about the accuracy of the number of unique thread creators) and
3. which has gone on for the better part of eight pages (soon to be nine).

I don't know, mark1030. It looks suspiciously like a vendetta to me.