Over 430 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1040 posters in support DONE!!!!!
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Nice to see some people think labyrinth is not ok in its current state. Just make the lab optional, dont gate ascendancy point behind it, and those who love it still will run it for enchants and loot. No need to torture those who hate it, really.
Last edited by Zloberik#0691 on Nov 19, 2016, 6:13:26 AM
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" Its a game, some people work in life, not in games. Yes, its a filthy casuals, but they are majority. And no, uber lab is not easy. Its too build and gear dependant. I simply could not complete it on few of my chars, and had to buy carry. |
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" Thank you for posting your opinion. You're number 644 on the list. :-) People lurking that have never posted their opinion on the labyrinth can make a post and I will then add your name to list. We would like to convince GGG that it would be in their best interest to make a change such as Zloberik suggests. We want PoE to be fun and challenging for everyone. We just want to play the old "kill monsters get loot" game play that we all love in the rest of PoE. We don't want to play boring, irritating, and tedious game play like in labyrinth. We care about other people's fun though. Leave labyrinth traps like they are so if people enjoy that then they can still play that unaffected. Over 430 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1040 posters in support (thread # 1702621) Thank you all! GGG will implement a different method for ascension in PoE2. Retired!
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This list is... if the threads would actually be checked and the people:
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1747571 This is a good example, it doesn't have anything to do with the Lab, and the guy isn't disliking the lab, he is crying about the randomness of trials, which is a valid complain, it took me a very long time to get all 6 this league as well. https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1713126 This one again is a valid concern, not about the lab, but the amount of work the trials required... and actually GGG did exactly what was asked of them, so the thread isn't even viable anymore. https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1600645 This one raised a valid concern and I think there are more of those, but I don't want to look for all of them that ES has struggles, I wouldn't necessarily agree with that, but again with the 40% less damage taken this is basically fixed. Hybrids still get the short end of the stick... but they do in the whole game, not just the lab. There are also valid concerns about DCs, which is something that should be solved better in general, because as an online game having a way to reconnect might be approriate considering that DCs are likely to happen at some point in such a game and allowing players to rejoin an instance that likely is still open shouldn't cause too much troubles. But again those issues are mostly resolved and most of those threads are from the start of the leagues. There is even somebody complaining that Izaro is too easy on that list " Also this guy is on this list, no idea how he got there, but hey, he might have complained about Izaro being too easy. After all it is entirely different thing if you complain about some lab layouts not being doable, because levers were missing etc. and complaining about the overall concept. Because if something doesn't work, people should complain, and a lot of people actually defending the lab complaint about those things, exspecially since they were rather slow to fix some of the faulty layouts. This doesn't actually make them opposed to the lab. The issue with many of the suggestions is that while the Uber Lab is rewarding, the other 3 labs are not. And how can they, they are way too easy. Merc Izaro is a bit easier than Malachai (in Cruel and Normal it is the other way around, if you do Izaro on the approriate level) and if the Lab would actually be rewarding you could amass huge amounts of wealth just by doing the lab. So the first 3 labs only exist for the Ascendancy Points, there is no other use to them, yes they give enchants and you might do the Merc Lab to get a good boot enchant, but that's it. Helmet Enchants are too random, which is hard to fix, because people might want Tornado Shot Enchants on all kind of Helmets, so it is hard to make a smart system. One Lab will likely be phased out anyway with 3.0, because with only having two difficulties it would be odd to have 3 labs. I also could totally see them add alternatives for the Uber Lab. And to be fair I would award those points if you defeat Uber Atziri or Shaper, because Uber Lab is far easier or honestly just finishing a Vaal Temple map could be enough. There could also be League Specific ways to get those 2 points, like killing all Breach Lords in the next league. Because while the other labs would be useless, the Uberlab in itself is rewarding enough to survive. This would mean people could just get the 3 Points from the Normal Lab and the 2 Points from one of the ways to get them. And if they have those 5 points they are likely to just do the Merc or Cruel (whichever difficulty remains) one because it isn't really that much work. Besides this there are of course technical improvements that should always happen, but those aren't really limited to the lab. Less DCs or ways to prevent the damage they cause are beneficial for all parts, not just the lab. " |
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" You seem to be saying that if it is a valid concern then it shouldn't be on the list. If so then it would seem to show your abject inability to be objective. This is about trials. Trials have everything to do with labyrinth. Claiming that it is a good example and saying it has nothing to do about labyrinth is apparently another example of your problem with objectivity. " Being fixed or not is completely irrelevant. While the thread itself may no longer be relevant it is completely relevant when it comes to a list of problems that were released with labyrinth. The fact is that Labyrinth is horrible and has always been horrible. There are many many things that have been wrong with it and many that are still wrong with it. " It was a problem with labyrinth. Being fixed or not is irrelevant to this list. " If that is the only thing he complained about then please point it out to me and I'll take it off the list. If he complained about other stuff as well and you still made this statement then I have no clue why you mentioned it. I guess it would just be another example of your inability to be objective? " I didn't put him on the list. That was done by the original author of the list. I suspect that he was put on the list because I remember, him starting up a thread suggesting some potential fixes for the labyrinth. " That is not a list of people opposing the labyrinth. It is a list of people that have posted in support of fixing the labyrinth. It might have been helpful to read the OP before trying to respond to the OP? You also talked about enchants and things in the last couple of paragraphs. I'm not interesting in the subject and see no reason to respond? (Also, I fixed your url's for the convenience of the people reading this.) Over 430 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1040 posters in support (thread # 1702621) Thank you all! GGG will implement a different method for ascension in PoE2. Retired!
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Just pointing out I am not advocating for changes to lab. I have made it clear i do not think it needs changing. I have however described possible changes that would benefit everyone without removing AC points from lab or trying to change hiw AC mechanics work.
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" Jgizle, I will be happy to remove anyone from the list, if they just ask. Over 430 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1040 posters in support (thread # 1702621) Thank you all! GGG will implement a different method for ascension in PoE2. Retired!
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" Well if you would fight for easier access to the uber lab it would make sense. Because the author complained about exactly that. He wanted to go in there, but he had bad luck with trials (actually he needed about 20 trials, which isn't even too bad :P). So while it is a a proper complain I can't see easier access to the uber lab being something that advocates issues with the lab itself and I doubt it fits the argument this thread tries to make, since he doesn't seem to want ascendancy points removed from the lab or anything similar to that. So using threads like that as an argument for changes to the actual lab is kinda odd. If I complain that it is hard to get access to certain health services my complain wouldn't make sense if used to campaign against these services. So how does his complain has objectively any other point than providing better access. So if that is the case, let us make access to the uber lab easier if you are happy then, if that doesn't make you happy don't use his complaint as an argument for changes that aren't even promoted by the topic. " Well the only thing this proves is that GGG takes valid concerns serious and acts on them. I mean they basically have a record for releasing things with issues, it would be odd if the lab would be different. Those are also usually quickly fixed. Releasing not well working things is an issue they have on general. So if you propose that they should properly check things and propably take a bit more time to update the life realm to catch more issues then again, this is a point which has nothing to do with the labyrinth or your agenda per se. " I think I can deliver: Didn't actually complain just made a thread to tell people they should just buy a carry instead of complain about the lab https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1713658 He did dislike the lab but corrected that he feels it's rather easy and not worth the wuss https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1706797 Oh and I have another thing to add: " Here is another one that is basically just about Izaro (and since he complains about the MMORPG like bosses he propably dislikes basically any boss introduced after Atziri. https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1758026 I didn't find one besides a troll that said the Uber Lab is too easy, and I'm not actually sure about the troll one, because I know that he dislikes the lab, so not sure why he would want to make it less approachable for lab runners. However my point is if you have an agenda you should only collect posts that actually align with it, not just anything that randomly mentions the lab in any negativ form. Because I doubt that you would actually change your point if even half of those complains would be fixed, because a lot of them center around DCs in the lab, which is fixable without changing any of the content and would benefit the game much more in general than investing ressources into alternative ways to ascend. |
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" Removing Ascendacy points from the lab would fix the trials problem. Which would (potentially) fix the cause of the complaint. So whether the author wants the same "solution" as 'Turtledove' (remove Ascendancy from lab?) or not - there is a clear relevance and an "alignment". " Disagree conceptually and I find this thread helpful for showing numbers. Although personally I dont care much for 'Turtledoves' ideas of how to fix it. Everybody (*) has some different ideas about how to improve the game. So it is not going to be possible to form a group of perfectly aligned people. The question would then be to find an (arbitrary) cutoff point. Which would just lead to more discussion. Using this simpe method can avoid most of that. It (making a larger group out of smaller not strongly aligned groups) is also a tool commonly used by humans - especially in politics. IMO it is and should be the authors choice whether to include only "strongly aligning" or also other posts. (*) Not considering mindless fanboys/fangirls. No wonder it's lost, it's in the middle of the jungle!
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" Over 270 threads discussing labyrinth problems. If the labyrinth were made truly optional (from the character development perspective) then much of these kind of complaints would dissipate. " Some of the intended purposes served by this list are; - demonstrates that the Ascendancy Release had large quality problems in both design and execution. - providing anecdotal evidence as to how a significant percentage of the player base dislikes the labyrinth, - demonstrates that there's been many problems in the labyrinth, - help bring attention to the issue in the hope that GGG will fix the problem by making labyrinth optional or making ascendancy points available without requiring bad trap gameplay, - and it demonstrates how horribly divisive the labyrinth has become for the community. " He said, "Laby keyed to ascendency sucks". He didn't make a correction, it was a further elaboration. [rolls eyes] " He says, "So while I've always been one of the lab haters". Just because someone does the lab even though they hate doesn't nullify the point that they have voiced a strong dislike for the labyrinth. I'm sorry if you don't agree but, that is the way it is? " I'll give you credit for this one. I have removed it from the list. Not sure what you mean by another one that's Izaro only though, this seemed to be the only one? " You seem to think that just because someone hasn't parroted exactly what I've said then it doesn't apply for some unknown reason? I am not going to complain if GGG fixes something in the labyrinth and makes it less painful. Not sure why you would argue such a silly thing? Fixing something in the labyrinth that many people have complained about makes it better for those people and many others that share the same opinion but just never voiced their opinion on this forum. Some of the intended purposes served by this list are; - demonstrates that the Ascendancy Release had large quality problems in both design and execution. - providing anecdotal evidence as to how a significant percentage of the player base dislikes the labyrinth, - demonstrates that there's been many problems in the labyrinth, - help bring attention to the issue in the hope that GGG will fix the problem by making labyrinth optional or making ascendancy points available without requiring bad trap gameplay, - and it demonstrates how horribly divisive the labyrinth has become for the community. P.S. I suggest that it might show a little bit of thoughtfulness for others in your future posts if you used the URL tag. It is really very easy to do and makes it a lot easier for people reading your post to follow. Thank you. Over 430 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1040 posters in support (thread # 1702621) Thank you all! GGG will implement a different method for ascension in PoE2. Retired!
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