Over 430 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1040 posters in support DONE!!!!!

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Fruz wrote:

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gibbousmoon wrote:

It is Latin for "to/toward the man" and refers to attacking a person's character, usually to distract from the message that person was saying.

Implying that someone has delusions comparable to those held by paranoid schizophrenics and that their statement therefore has no legitimacy is a classic example of an ad hominem. This is exactly what you did.

If you had an ounce of self awareness (and also knew what the phrase meant yourself), then you would know that already. <-- See? This is an example of an ad hominem. This time directed at you, just for fun, and to help deepen your understanding of the term.

You're welcome!

But you still don't get why it does not apply in this case ?
So you can write down an approximate definition, but not comprehend it ?

The whole post seems like paranoia, so I was replying according the content of the post, whatever the user, the answer would have been the same ( which is basically, the difference between ad hominem and not ad hominem, would you have said it, you would have gotten the exact, same, answer ).
So you indeed seem to be in the case that you cannot apply a definition to understand its actual meaning and application, sad.
Ad Hominem means using elements outside of the content of a message, elements related to the user.

You're welcome, np.

Ah, I get it now. So you are saying that if your post is stupid I get to call you stupid and that doesn't count as ad hominem because your post is stupid and would be just as stupid even if another person wrote it (in which case I would be equally justified in calling that person stupid).

Thank you for clearing that up for me. I'm beginning to understand you much better now, and where your posts come from.

P.S. No, Fruz, "ad hominem" does not mean what you think it means.

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vio wrote:

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gibbousmoon wrote:

I would be surprised if Chris hadn't already rethought his original position that highly controversial content which is hated by a vocal portion of the playerbase is perfectly fine in Path of Exile (or any other game).

some players would shitstorm about anything, if there would be no labyrinth they would shitstorm about low drop rates, overpowered bosses, one shot deaths and so on.

wait, in fact they did. as a consequence one can now stand in the torture chamber's boss' lighning beam without dying. nice achievement, really.

A lot of labyrinth fans use this defense, but I have yet to see a single one give an example of an equally controversial addition to the game with either as much depth of hatred or staying power of hatred (let alone both, which the labyrinth boasts).

You implied that there are many examples, but I am only asking for one. If you can do that, I will cede your point.

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gibbousmoon wrote:

I have yet to see a single one give an example of an equally controversial addition to the game with either as much depth of hatred or staying power of hatred (let alone both, which the labyrinth boasts).

supposed "pay to win" public stash tabs?
instanced loot <-> free for all or timed loot?

there is a list of shitstorm topics somewhere in general discussion.

---

eventually the participation rate of players will decide whether features get changed or not, those shitstorms just clog the forums.

there are valid arguments against the labyrinth, for example bad connections or high latency but only few player's complaints mention them.

I'll grant that pay2win stash tabs has had the same staying power (it pops up every now and again). Not nearly the same amount of hatred, of course.

Loot changes have blown over, though tbh I wasn't following that argument that closely. How long did that particular controversy last? And was there anywhere near the same amount of venom spewing everywhere?

I get the sense that the lab controversy will never blow over unless/until GGG either improves it substantially or removes Ascendancy points from it, because many players feel forced to play the content, and I see fresh hatred from new players every time I come into the forum. I also occasionally see new fans, but by and large the people defending the labyrinth are the same people in every thread, whereas detractors seem to show a much greater mix of regular and occasional posters (new players, perhaps).

1. Unwanted changes (nerfs, etc.) usually blow over because people get used to them and adapt.

2. Content that people find both unskippable and genuinely unfun doesn't blow over, because too many players end up hating it more and more instead of getting used to it.

I think many people mistakenly place the Labyrinth in the former category, where most shitstorm topics do indeed fit.

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gibbousmoon wrote:

I get the sense that the lab controversy will never blow over unless/until GGG either improves it substantially or removes Ascendancy points from it, because many players feel forced to play the content

they are forced to play the labyrinth.

and while it has beatiful artwork and one doesn't really notice the traps anymore after some time (except uber lab which i haven't done yet) and overleveling the areas, i feel it's not really rewarding (yet) compared to dried lake runs.

having to check reddit before going for darkshrines is annoying and prevents me to do occasional runs in merciless for fun, once you have the enchantments you want on your gear it's not really worth it (rat's nest without enchantments currently goes for 35c while enchanted ones (like 40% more frenzy damage) are just 10c more expensive).

and having to solve a complicated puzzle only to get a rare helm from a supply cache at best is ... underwhelming.


so, having do do it once for ascendancy points is fine for me. as an improvement i could imagine the lower difficulties having less rooms though...

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gibbousmoon wrote:

by and large the people defending the labyrinth are the same people in every thread

natural thing: an unrewarding and grindy game results in enraged and often disapointed players just coming here to vent. additionally the hostile tone probably scares off players who have no special detestation against the lab.

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vio wrote:

and having to solve a complicated puzzle only to get a rare helm from a supply cache at best is ... underwhelming.

Have these puzzles open up secret passageways that bypass traps. Is that so hard to do?

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gibbousmoon wrote:

[...]

Saying that someone is saying stupid things has nothing to do with ad hominem, no.
Saying that he is stupid is a bit different tho.
But alright, keep thinking whatever man then, it's not worth my time ( about this case ).
edit : just to clarify, I say that it's not worth my time because I don't think that this will lead anywhere.

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vio wrote:

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gibbousmoon wrote:

by and large the people defending the labyrinth are the same people in every thread

natural thing: an unrewarding and grindy game results in enraged and often disapointed players just coming here to vent. additionally the hostile tone probably scares off players who have no special detestation against the lab.

I was about to say this too.

PoE when it started was supposed to be a hardcore-like game, unfriendly but rewarding and time consuming.
Recently, with all the power creep, many players arrive there and see everything easy ( following a random guide on the internet ) and then hit the lab .... I can understand that they do not like it, if they were expected the whole game to be easy.
If the game was not a loot fest and people were not following given builds like this, maybe there would be ( proportionally, because there would probably be less players ) less complaining, imho.

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Pyrokar wrote:

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vio wrote:

and having to solve a complicated puzzle only to get a rare helm from a supply cache at best is ... underwhelming.

Have these puzzles open up secret passageways that bypass traps. Is that so hard to do?

Hqving some secret puzzles to bypass some traps, that could be a nice thing to have.
But maybe they do not have enough puzzles for that, and adding new ones could take some time.

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Fruz wrote:

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Pyrokar wrote:

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vio wrote:

and having to solve a complicated puzzle only to get a rare helm from a supply cache at best is ... underwhelming.

Have these puzzles open up secret passageways that bypass traps. Is that so hard to do?

Hqving some secret puzzles to bypass some traps, that could be a nice thing to have.
But maybe they do not have enough puzzles for that, and adding new ones could take some time.

They will have had 6 months when next exp starts. Just saying...

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gibbousmoon wrote:

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vio wrote:

"

gibbousmoon wrote:

I would be surprised if Chris hadn't already rethought his original position that highly controversial content which is hated by a vocal portion of the playerbase is perfectly fine in Path of Exile (or any other game).

some players would shitstorm about anything, if there would be no labyrinth they would shitstorm about low drop rates, overpowered bosses, one shot deaths and so on.

wait, in fact they did. as a consequence one can now stand in the torture chamber's boss' lighning beam without dying. nice achievement, really.

A lot of labyrinth fans use this defense, but I have yet to see a single one give an example of an equally controversial addition to the game with either as much depth of hatred or staying power of hatred (let alone both, which the labyrinth boasts).

You implied that there are many examples, but I am only asking for one. If you can do that, I will cede your point.

1. Trade
2. Map pools too hard to sustain
3. Remove Cruel.
4.desync

Also you have the new exp changes for red maps, which is a newer change, but garners tons of hate.

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Pyrokar wrote:

They will have had 6 months when next exp starts. Just saying...

Yeah, I was just implying that something not trivial to do has potentially less chances to go up on their priority list.
I'd like more puzzles, it would go against the clear-speed one shot everything meta and would be a nice change.
Since the "new" PoE population ( I mean since power creep and oplol uniques are overflowing, it attracted many more people ) seem to have troubles with the lab, maybe they will do something .... but I would not expect it soon to be honest, we'll see.

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Xtorma wrote:

1. Trade
2. Map pools too hard to sustain
3. Remove Cruel.
4.desync

Also you have the new exp changes for red maps, which is a newer change, but garners tons of hate.

"Remove xp penalty" seems to come back to the trend, lately, at least I've seen couple of posts about it.