Over 430 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1040 posters in support DONE!!!!!

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mark1030 wrote:

Are you talking about your post where you thought ascendency points were too powerful? That may be, but that is a separate issue from the design of the lab. And the other thing you said in that post was about making it a race. While I think that people with slow computers are at a severe disadvantage in that regard, I don't see that as an issue with the lab either. I've seen the videos of people doing the lab in 3 minutes. Even the best computer in the world wouldn't cut my time from 12 minutes down to 3. So, I'm not sure what you think are the legitmate design failures that wouldn't be considered design failures if everybody liked the lab.

You're stopping your analysis short. Consider where the dislike comes from, why people would feel compelled to do something they don't enjoy. The fact that people dislike the lab isn't the only issue. It's why people feel forced to do it even though they don't like it. Consider the design choices that have led to this being the case.

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mark1030 wrote:

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GeorgAnatoly wrote:

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mark1030 wrote:

But all those "separate" complaints are the same complaint. Would anybody complain about ascendency points gated behind the lab if they didn't dislike something about playing in the lab? Would anybody complain about reward structure if they didn't dislike something about playing in the lab? Would anybody complain about difficulty or traps or anything else on your list if they liked the lab? All your complaints boil down to one thing, and that's a dislike of playing in the lab. You're trying to make it fancier than it really is.

No there are legitimate design failures as I described earlier in this thread.

Are you talking about your post where you thought ascendency points were too powerful? That may be, but that is a separate issue from the design of the lab. And the other thing you said in that post was about making it a race. While I think that people with slow computers are at a severe disadvantage in that regard, I don't see that as an issue with the lab either. I've seen the videos of people doing the lab in 3 minutes. Even the best computer in the world wouldn't cut my time from 12 minutes down to 3. So, I'm not sure what you think are the legitmate design failures that wouldn't be considered design failures if everybody liked the lab.

I agree the problem is they exist. If they made red maps easier to get and removed the good unique penalty and the xp penalty then I said remove the fucking things all together.

As long as they are there though you need to get them or your not whole. Its about growing your characters build. Items are about power. Advancement is about leveling to max.

Ouch Casual got put on probation. I second peeing on electric fence over lab but I will include while also standing in a puddle while being forced to watch MAD about you episodes with William Hung CD playing on a 119 degree day while covered in honey in a bee farm that are getting smoked and not for 15 minutes instead for 15 days.

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Casual_Ascent wrote:

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sxxnx wrote:

I fail to comprehend how people can find the lab hard to do..
Running around with 4.2k hp, barely feeling the traps. They're tedious at best.

But it's a part of the game, and I don't mind it being there.

The uber lab is essentially a 5chaos tier 8-ish map, with the odds of giving you several times that investment + an enchant for doing it.

Hell, even Merc lab can have good currency outcomes, and it's frikken free to run..

If you don't like this type of thing, why are you even here?
The game is all about farming and maximizing your potential, and/or trading to make profits.
We also have the theorycrafters, but even they need their currencies to test stuff..

Why do people always want the easy way out?.. ERRMAGEERD i gotta do this 3 times???
Yes.. you do have to spend 15-20minutes of your life, 3 times in a video game to get power beyond what is reasonable..
(15-20 minutes being the average newplayer time i would guess, not an accurate number by any means, nor do I have any facts to back this up.)

You spend far more time completing the same content throughout the 3 difficulties, so why aren't we seeing more posts about that?

I'd rather pee on an electrified fence IRL than spend 15 mins in the lab.

Please film it and post here.

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mark1030 wrote:

But all those "separate" complaints are the same complaint. Would anybody complain about ascendency points gated behind the lab if they didn't dislike something about playing in the lab? Would anybody complain about reward structure if they didn't dislike something about playing in the lab? Would anybody complain about difficulty or traps or anything else on your list if they liked the lab? All your complaints boil down to one thing, and that's a dislike of playing in the lab. You're trying to make it fancier than it really is.

You are reversing the cause and effect here.

Those complaints (the cause) are why people hate the Lab (the effect)--not the other way around. You can't just intrinsically hate the Lab without having reasons for it. The "why" is the reason these posts keep coming up.

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Prebornfetus wrote:

Ouch Casual got put on probation.

Since bodily functions seem to be out of bounds, I guess we better go back to the "eating okra" analogy for the labyrinth, just to be on the safe side.

jesus, good effort :P

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Albinosaurus wrote:

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mark1030 wrote:

But all those "separate" complaints are the same complaint. Would anybody complain about ascendency points gated behind the lab if they didn't dislike something about playing in the lab? Would anybody complain about reward structure if they didn't dislike something about playing in the lab? Would anybody complain about difficulty or traps or anything else on your list if they liked the lab? All your complaints boil down to one thing, and that's a dislike of playing in the lab. You're trying to make it fancier than it really is.

You are reversing the cause and effect here.

Those complaints (the cause) are why people hate the Lab (the effect)--not the other way around. You can't just intrinsically hate the Lab without having reasons for it. The "why" is the reason these posts keep coming up.

I don't think so. I think the labe hate reason is they hate doing the lab, not those other things. For example, one complaint is that the ascendency points are gated behind it. If GGG gave an alternate way to get those points, would those people suddenly like doing the lab? Would they ever do it if they didn't feel they had to? No. So it's their hate of the lab that makes them hate the lab. Even if they removed any reason for doing it, those people would still hate it and would not do it. They wouldn't complain as much about it, but they'd still hate the lab. Similarly, if they made the lab something else that people liked, they could gate anything they wanted behind it. So I stand by my simplification that the cause of the lab hate is that people hate doing the lab. Because if they liked it, none of those other reasons would exist. Cause: they hate running the lab. Effect: they hate they can't get what the lab offers another way so become more vocal about it.

This only addresses the non performance lab haters though. I still think it's a problem when people can't do the lab because they disconnect and can't continue where they left off.

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mark1030 wrote:

I don't think so. ... So it's their hate of the lab that makes them hate the lab. ... So I stand by my simplification that the cause of the lab hate is that people hate doing the lab.

You are stating a tautology. And not even a disguised tautology, like you frequently see in lists of logical fallacies.

I hate the lab because I hate the lab.
I love okra pickles because I love okra pickles.

These statements make no logical sense, even though the premise and conclusion are both true.