Over 430 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1040 posters in support DONE!!!!!

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The_Reporter wrote:

Seems like a good thing! Remains to be seen ;)

Good to see you're still plugging away at it, old friend.

Right, likely a good thing but remains to be seen if it will be significant in making lab more fun or maybe optional?

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Zalhan2 wrote:

Actually I waited till I got all the trials myself I was on my second level 90 at level 70 when it popped. They need to make the trials a little less random. Like when you make a map always give YOU one you haven't done yet if a trial pops.

What's the point of the trials anyway? we have all done them so much they aren't hard zzzzz.

Right now they function as gates to prevent unlimited runs of the Uber Lab. Whether they do a good job of that is a different question, but I understand GGG's intention there.

The problem of incentivizing unfun activities for profit (which always indicates bad design, imo) will only get worse as people find the trials less and less fun to run through repeatedly (if they ever found them fun in the first place), and for that reason I think offerings should be moved to a different gate. Map boss occasional drops, perhaps?

Or they should do something to make those trials a fun process, like they've been trying to do with the Lab. But how would you go about doing that? I have a few ideas, but none of them is any good.

beleive it or not but trials are more of a 'i heard these are bad' than real issue. except Burning Rage or rather FrameEater Trial that can make people literaly flip they keyboard and ragequit due to lag


same with the lab. have any of you actually tried it recently? Darkshrines + random coffers + slight tweaks to trap layouts really make it a nice place to farm and even level (got my 89-90 there on my last char). fixed layout gives you the chance to improve and feel familiar and the random 'extras' placement makes the exploration fun activity with SOME rewards. the main profit of lab is 'twice/thrice enchanted' - not the drops anyway


the one and only problem with lab right now is how different layouts one can find: nice linear 2-2-3 with 3+ shrines/coffers and Argus on the main path and enxt day 4-3-4 with gold doors and Argus hidden so well noone can find him

these layouts are terribad (esp the 'inversed' gold door sections) and i can understand not many people want to FARM them (doing them once for points? please, stop whining over insignificant things - 2 mins longer run is still shorter than writing a vitrol-loaded post here)

btw 'Ascendancy rework' might just as well mean class balance (that there is none right now..) - and for the health of the game total Ascendancy removal might be just the best option. power creep kills..

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sidtherat wrote:

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Are you the poster who once claimed that only five players disliked labyrinth? If you are, then why would you post in this thread?

Incidentally, I finished uber labyrinth fairly recently on a summoner necro in SSF Abyss. After finishing up on the first attempt I put the remaining five offerings to their best possible use; I vendored them for a wisdom scroll and celebrated that I would never again be setting foot with that character in that irritating out-of-place fucking platform mini-game.

I have another character (phys cyclone slayer) with 4 out of 6 trials completed. When he makes it through uber labyrinth I plan on celebrating in exactly the same way.

Actually power creeping the Lab is very pleasant in that you can run thru most of the traps and just randomly run circles around stuff till he dies quickly, it's like pretending it doesn't exist.

Minions, High ES and Large Mana pool MOM all make Uber bearable. You can spec to something fun after your done!.

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EnjoyTheJourney wrote:

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sidtherat wrote:

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Are you the poster who once claimed that only five players disliked labyrinth? If you are, then why would you post in this thread?

Incidentally, I finished uber labyrinth fairly recently on a summoner necro in SSF Abyss. After finishing up on the first attempt I put the remaining five offerings to their best possible use; I vendored them for a wisdom scroll and celebrated that I would never again be setting foot with that character in that irritating out-of-place fucking platform mini-game.

I have another character (phys cyclone slayer) with 4 out of 6 trials completed. When he makes it through uber labyrinth I plan on celebrating in exactly the same way.

IIRC, sid said 5 or 7 people and then started repeating 7 people, that is until Zaludoz tabulated the long list of people saying that labyrinth needed fixing.

Labyrinth is loathsome content. Last league I finished endgame trial an uber lab by character level 77. This league my character was level 83 with only one endgame trial done. So, I ended up cheating and going to global 820. I hate doing that. I hate watching poelab.com for a good day to run lab. I do these stupid things I hate because loathsome labyrinth is even worse if you don't do it.

sidtherat was right about two things though, dark shrines are good, I highly recommend the torture of looking for them. Use the inset map and watch for rooms outlined by a single line. Go to that area and look for a discrete switch that doesn't really show up until you go over it with the mouse. Rarely the dark shrine is in an open area in a dead end map. Those aren't worth going out of your way for in my experience. Searching for Dark shrines makes the loathsome content longer but significantly reduces the likelihood that you'll have to repeat the whole thing again due to death from Izaro. The other thing that sidtherat was right about is that Burning Rage is burning rage quitting content. It matches the other loathsome content in lab well though, IMHO. He may be right about farming lab but I don't think most people following this thread are interested in running the loathsome content unless they have to get the ascendancy points.

I really like the idea of vendoring one's unused offerings for a scroll fragment. It is a most fitting ritual.

Burning rage isn't bad with like a 2K mana pool MOM high mana regen and life regen. ALso cluttering the room with undead helps too.

I wonder is it legal to make a uber lab destroyer on a second account and carry the rest of your chars thru?

I was having a bad hair day and died on the last fight (never did the one with 90% of the room is one big lava pit.) a few times. But the traps themselves with massive regen were easy to run thru and on the third successful trial I got the hang of just quickly running thru all the traps to the final encounters.

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Zalhan2 wrote:

Burning rage isn't bad with like a 2K mana pool MOM high mana regen and life regen. ALso cluttering the room with undead helps too.

I wonder is it legal to make a uber lab destroyer on a second account and carry the rest of your chars thru?

I was having a bad hair day and died on the last fight (never did the one with 90% of the room is one big lava pit.) a few times. But the traps themselves with massive regen were easy to run thru and on the third successful trial I got the hang of just quickly running thru all the traps to the final encounters.

I've become very fond of dark shrines. There's a common dark shrine that disables traps in the final Izaro room. Others provide shrine like powers for the rest of the labyrinth run. Besides those displaying the buff in the top left corner of the screen is there a way to tell what buff the dark shrine has provided you?

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Zalhan2 wrote:

I wonder is it legal to make a uber lab destroyer on a second account and carry the rest of your chars thru?

Why wouldn't it be legal? You're allowed to run two clients on one computer as long as nothing is automated. You just have to alt tab to comtrol the other account. There were some leagues I used an alt account to have two sets of masters for the currency deals and the extra missions fron the alt's dailies.

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sidtherat wrote:

beleive it or not but trials are more of a 'i heard these are bad' than real issue. except Burning Rage or rather FrameEater Trial that can make people literaly flip they keyboard and ragequit due to lag


same with the lab. have any of you actually tried it recently? Darkshrines + random coffers + slight tweaks to trap layouts really make it a nice place to farm and even level (got my 89-90 there on my last char). fixed layout gives you the chance to improve and feel familiar and the random 'extras' placement makes the exploration fun activity with SOME rewards. the main profit of lab is 'twice/thrice enchanted' - not the drops anyway

Incentivizing unfun content is bad design.

The trials have never been fun for almost anyone, so far as I know. And of course I include people who find the process of running the Lab intrinsically rewarding in that "anyone." Unfun content which is perceived as required will always be a "real issue," in my book.

The Lab is more fun than it used to be. Importantly, the journey itself is more fun. This is distinct from bribing players to engage unfun content by buffing the overall rewards. That is an important distinction.

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the one and only problem with lab right now is how different layouts one can find: nice linear 2-2-3 with 3+ shrines/coffers and Argus on the main path and enxt day 4-3-4 with gold doors and Argus hidden so well noone can find him

these layouts are terribad (esp the 'inversed' gold door sections) and i can understand not many people want to FARM them (doing them once for points? please, stop whining over insignificant things - 2 mins longer run is still shorter than writing a vitrol-loaded post here)

This is an indirect consequence of the lack of per-play randomization. Another consequence is the incentivization of non-gameplay activities such as looking at poelab daily and waiting for a good run day. Most people don't find this very fun, but it is a better way to make a profit.

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btw 'Ascendancy rework' might just as well mean class balance (that there is none right now..) - and for the health of the game total Ascendancy removal might be just the best option. power creep kills..

A dire idea from both a gameplay and business perspective, but your sentiment is 100% correct. Sidegrades are a better solution than upgrades for maintaining player interest without backing your game into a corner.