Over 430 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1040 posters in support DONE!!!!!

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Zaludoz wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

Some interesting news is that Chris Wilson said.

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ChrisWilson wrote:

So, what we're going to do, in regard to revamping old content, is interleave it with the schedule. Obviously, we're going to target the most important stuff first, but there are so many things where we're working at the moment that are targeted to go alongside leagues, so the next league includes some revamping of old content. For example, we promised an Ascendancy rework. The Ascendancy rework done in the next league is extensive, far more so than we've promised. There's a lot of work there, and people are going to love it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/7qc08a/chris_wilson_interview_with_zizaran_jan_13_2018/

There's no clue in the interview as to what kind of changes this might actually turn out to be. He said that the Ascendancy rework would be done in parts with the first part currently planned for release 3.2.

This may just turn out to be a re-balancing of the Ascendancy nodes, not the method of acquisition. Not holding out hope, but not ruling it out either.

I absolutely agree.

That wording sounds suspiciously like they are introducing an alternative method to getting the points.

That would make many of you happy, I'm sure, but me not so much, because I have a dirty secret:

I've been glad that they are locked in the Labyrinth, because that has increased the bad publicity surrounding the Lab and compelled GGG to improve it.

Once they are removed (or an alternative introduced), you can be fairly certain the Lab will not see many more improvements, because people who hate it will simply avoid it, so the bad publicity will cease.

...And I suppose that's not a bad ending to this story. But we'll see!

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gibbousmoon wrote:

That wording sounds suspiciously like they are introducing an alternative method to getting the points.

That would make many of you happy, I'm sure, but me not so much, because I have a dirty secret:

I've been glad that they are locked in the Labyrinth, because that has increased the bad publicity surrounding the Lab and compelled GGG to improve it.

Once they are removed (or an alternative introduced), you can be fairly certain the Lab will not see many more improvements, because people who hate it will simply avoid it, so the bad publicity will cease.

...And I suppose that's not a bad ending to this story. But we'll see!

Traitor! Get him lab haters!

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gibbousmoon wrote:

That wording sounds suspiciously like they are introducing an alternative method to getting the points.

That would make many of you happy, I'm sure, but me not so much, because I have a dirty secret:

I've been glad that they are locked in the Labyrinth, because that has increased the bad publicity surrounding the Lab and compelled GGG to improve it.

Once they are removed (or an alternative introduced), you can be fairly certain the Lab will not see many more improvements, because people who hate it will simply avoid it, so the bad publicity will cease.

...And I suppose that's not a bad ending to this story. But we'll see!

Well, from my own selfish personal point of view, I too would like to see them make labyrinth fun to play. From the GGG point of view though, I see that as a rather risky proposition. The risk is that if they change labyrinth too much then people that enjoy the labyrinth game play will get upset. That would potentially create a whole new issue. If you listen to the latest very long Chris Wilson interview, which is linked above, this was a theme that Chris mentioned more than once. Note that this was not in the context of ascendancy or labyrinth but with different examples.

On a tangent, Chris also mentioned that GGG reads this forum and are inclined to address problems brought up here. He said that problems raised here are frequently good and valid but that the solutions proposed here were frequently bad and invalid.

Well, the biggest problem with the Labyrinth, in my opinion, was that it encouraged you to skip as much of it as possible. Exploration was actively discouraged by its reward structure.

Any content which discourages engagement is badly designed content.

I know a lot of people disagreed with my position that it was the biggest problem, and many disagreed that it was a problem at all, but GGG apparently did not. Have you explored the Labyrinth lately? It's a lot more fun than it ever was to just wander randomly around and see what you find.

The psychological burden that the traps place on me makes it so that i can't bear to explore the lab more than i have to. My only reward, when inside the lab, feels like being the end of it and the horrible mario design.

I would explore the shit out of lab if there were switches that disable the traps.

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gibbousmoon wrote:

Well, the biggest problem with the Labyrinth, in my opinion, was that it encouraged you to skip as much of it as possible. Exploration was actively discouraged by its reward structure.

Any content which discourages engagement is badly designed content.

I know a lot of people disagreed with my position that it was the biggest problem, and many disagreed that it was a problem at all, but GGG apparently did not. Have you explored the Labyrinth lately? It's a lot more fun than it ever was to just wander randomly around and see what you find.

The context here is that when leveling I frequently clear almost all monsters and in maps always clear almost all monsters.

Actually I did clear most of the labyrinth in a run yesterday as I decided to get all the dark shrines. I agree that it did make it more fun. More accurately, it made it less loathsome. The problem for me though is that regular PoE game play is much more fun and doing a complete exploration of labyrinth just increases the risk of a death and having to do the whole loathsome thing all over again. If checkpoints were added though it would improve the whole experience by reducing potential frustration.

In summary, I agree that labyrinth discourages exploration and that this is a problem but not the biggest problem for me.

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gibbousmoon wrote:

Once they are removed (or an alternative introduced), you can be fairly certain the Lab will not see many more improvements, because people who hate it will simply avoid it, so the bad publicity will cease.

We know nothing yet, so there is no point guessing.
But even in your scenario lab-haters will avoid lab at all cost anyway, and lab-lovers will farm it anyway.
Anyway, I am very curious what hides behind this

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Nishrek wrote:

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gibbousmoon wrote:

Once they are removed (or an alternative introduced), you can be fairly certain the Lab will not see many more improvements, because people who hate it will simply avoid it, so the bad publicity will cease.

We know nothing yet, so there is no point guessing.
But even in your scenario lab-haters will avoid lab at all cost anyway, and lab-lovers will farm it anyway.
Anyway, I am very curious what hides behind this

Very curious, release 3.2 is only a couple months or so away. Whatever they have planned has already been decided and should be completing development and going into testing, I'll guess.

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Nishrek wrote:

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gibbousmoon wrote:

Once they are removed (or an alternative introduced), you can be fairly certain the Lab will not see many more improvements, because people who hate it will simply avoid it, so the bad publicity will cease.

We know nothing yet, so there is no point guessing.
But even in your scenario lab-haters will avoid lab at all cost anyway, and lab-lovers will farm it anyway.
Anyway, I am very curious what hides behind this

They were wholly transparent last time about planned changes to lab and they received a firehose of criticisms about lab from easily over a hundred posters (just in the thread announcing changes, not counting other posts in other forums). With the kind of optics that develop every time they make a lab-related announcement, perhaps GGG has decided that when it comes to providing information about upcoming changes to lab, "less is more".

Given the time frame and all the competing priorities, my guess is that they're making another easy-to-implement set of incremental changes and hoping that this time the consistent drumbeat of dislike and hate about lab that they keep hearing will largely disappear. But, my sense is that if there are anything other than major changes to how ascendancy works, then it's pretty much a given that they'll get another round of fierce criticism from a lot of players who continue to be disappointed that character progression has been gated behind the current mini-game.