Over 430 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1040 posters in support DONE!!!!!

@Turtledove

You're doing a great job of trying to quantify the general antipathy towards the lab, but unfortunately even if you manage to prove that 50%+ of the active forum population dislikes the lab it will still be irrelevant because the large majority of users are not active on the forums or even reddit for that matter.

The same applies for those arguing that everyone loves the lab. I can guarantee you that literally everybody I know that plays PoE dislikes the lab (yes anecdotal - deal with it), but they don't go spewing hate everywhere because they tolerate it as 'one of those things' the game forces you to do. I have a feeling the large majority of users fall into this category, but we have no way of knowing.

Is lab a total fail in game design? Yes. Is GGG going to remove it? Definitely not. They wasted too much time on it to just double back.

Unfortunately Turtle has pretty much ruined the credibility of his own crusade by force adding people to his list (unless they realize they are being added and go through the trouble of opting out which is not how petitions work at all) and considering any bottom of the barrel post worthy of being added to the list.

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BodyHammer01 wrote:

Unfortunately Turtle has pretty much ruined the credibility of his own crusade by force adding people to his list (unless they realize they are being added and go through the trouble of opting out which is not how petitions work at all) and considering any bottom of the barrel post worthy of being added to the list.

I think I'm on the list, but I never got one of those fancy declarations (I feel left out!). I'm fine with that though, because it doesn't do me any harm and I do believe the lab needs to change in some way or another. I try to provide constructive feedback though because saying stuff like 'fuck the lab' or 'lab sucks' isn't a very good way to stimulate change.

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Doomstryver wrote:

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BodyHammer01 wrote:

Unfortunately Turtle has pretty much ruined the credibility of his own crusade by force adding people to his list (unless they realize they are being added and go through the trouble of opting out which is not how petitions work at all) and considering any bottom of the barrel post worthy of being added to the list.

I think I'm on the list, but I never got one of those fancy declarations (I feel left out!). I'm fine with that though, because it doesn't do me any harm and I do believe the lab needs to change in some way or another. I try to provide constructive feedback though because saying stuff like 'fuck the lab' or 'lab sucks' isn't a very good way to stimulate change.

This is basically what I've been saying since day 1. I'm sure you won't be branded a troll or white knight or something though, because you actually agree with them somehow. Lucky you. :)

This is not a petition, it's a record.

The list contains posts by people who have expressed a desire to see change with the Labyrinth. The extent of that change, or whether they currently "like" the Labyrinth is inconsequential to the purpose of the list.

There is no intent from the list to show a majority, as has been stated, a majority is not necessary.

You're reading into it your own interpretation of the intentions if you think the list itself is anything more than that.

(One cannot claim all the voices on this list as being in agreement on any single change, only that change is desired.)

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Zaludoz wrote:

This is not a petition, it's a record.

The list contains posts by people who have expressed a desire to see change with the Labyrinth. The extent of that change, or whether they currently "like" the Labyrinth is inconsequential to the purpose of the list.

There is no intent from the list to show a majority, as has been stated, a majority is not necessary.

You're reading into it your own interpretation of the intentions if you think the list itself is anything more than that.

(One cannot claim all the voices on this list as being in agreement on any single change, only that change is desired.)

Fair enough. And I can appreciate the effort that has gone into this record. But if you yourself agree that it's just a list of people who want changes to the lab - my initial point still stands. Which is that the majority of PoE players do not frequent the forums and are therefore likely to never show up on your list (hell, until like 3 months ago I had 2-3 posts!).

It's wasted effort. You are much better scrapping this thread and just letting natural discussion occur in the Feedback and Suggestions forum. I don't think anybody needs a reminder of how divisive the lab is - and that there is strong opinions on both sides ;)

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Zaludoz wrote:

This is not a petition, it's a record.

The list contains posts by people who have expressed a desire to see change with the Labyrinth. The extent of that change, or whether they currently "like" the Labyrinth is inconsequential to the purpose of the list.

There is no intent from the list to show a majority, as has been stated, a majority is not necessary.

You're reading into it your own interpretation of the intentions if you think the list itself is anything more than that.

(One cannot claim all the voices on this list as being in agreement on any single change, only that change is desired.)

Interesting, because I'm almost positive Turtle and his minion directly call it a petition when they post their standard "I am adding your name to the list please let me know if you want removed from it" copy pasted message that they use. So I'll go ahead and use his choice of words, which doesn't require my interpretation.

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BodyHammer01 wrote:

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Zaludoz wrote:

This is not a petition, it's a record.

The list contains posts by people who have expressed a desire to see change with the Labyrinth. The extent of that change, or whether they currently "like" the Labyrinth is inconsequential to the purpose of the list.

There is no intent from the list to show a majority, as has been stated, a majority is not necessary.

You're reading into it your own interpretation of the intentions if you think the list itself is anything more than that.

(One cannot claim all the voices on this list as being in agreement on any single change, only that change is desired.)

Interesting, because I'm almost positive Turtle and his minion directly call it a petition when they post their standard "I am adding your name to the list please let me know if you want removed from it" copy pasted message that they use. So I'll go ahead and use his choice of words, which doesn't require my interpretation.

Just made up lies.

Hey I've been wrong before, more than happy to admit to it, but we're splitting the tiniest of hairs in debating whether it's a petition or list. The result is the same.

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BodyHammer01 wrote:

Hey I've been wrong before, more than happy to admit to it, but we're splitting the tiniest of hairs in debating whether it's a petition or list. The result is the same.

No, you don't know what you're talking about and you obviously aren't even interested in the truth of what you say enough to bother reading the OP to try to understand.