The Ascendency Labyrinth - My Conclusions so far and how to solve the Problem!

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SeedReaper wrote:

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miljan wrote:

Ok, as that is now finished, lets go back on topic as I had another suggestion/question.

What about that pushing cart mini game to be a replacement to the trap part of lab? I actually never played it, as I just want to finish the lab as fast as possible so dont do any side areas. How does it work, are there traps in that part? How I understand you need to be near the cart so it moves slowly, but at the same time you are attacked by monsters?

yes basically. sometimes the cart opens a locked door, as 2 days ago merc lab. bunch of junk in the chest... didn't bother to do it again in the 3 times i ran lab that night

Can you chose the direction you go with it, are there crossings where you can chose left or right, or its fully linear, and you just need to be near it? I mean, I would much more like to push it and kill mobs while doing it, than to dance around traps.

Because the non trap (or better said traps not made in sequence as in lab) part side area suggested by OP, can be filled with this type of challenge for progression, as that way you can not just run through the area, and GGG can make it really slower to progress than going directly through traps.

What are the problems with cart thing for people that played it, do they like it, not like it, why in both cases?

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Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

Uh maybe you havent played many ARPGS but traps are a pretty classic feature in ARPGS. Torchlight being one of them, in fact Torchlight 2 is probably where they drew alot of inspiration from for the Labyrinth as they have burning grates, secret treasure rooms, etc.

Please show me a video of Torchlight 2, where you have to play through levels filled with tons of more or less unavoidable trap sequences. I tried to find one and couldn't and I played TL2 some years ago and can't remember any heavy trap based level parts or rooms. Some minor puzzles, yes, but no trap rooms.

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Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

Also, it isnt "different gameplay" from Path of Exile. Path of Exile is an unfinished game that isnt even HALFWAY through its content development. They have 10 acts planned and they plan on stream lining the game into one giant play through at that point soo you saying that "oh it isnt very poe-ish" is invalid because the game is still in constant development and we arent even playing the full game. You cant tell the developers what is or isnt poe because the game isnt even finished and sorry to say, their vision for the game is more important that what you personally think path of exile should be.

But Path of Exile is no early access game. That means, the game genre, the gameplay and the core mechanics should be defined by now. If they decide to implement a real card game in the next content patch, would you think that fits into PoE? Or if they some kind of sports game? I mean, with your argumentation, it should be alright. And now they put 4 Ascendency points behind that card game, kinda forcing you to collect cards and play with others or against the AI to get your AC points. And if you lose the card game, you die. In HC that means perma death ofc.

I really don't get why you don't understand that some people just don't like the plattformer part of the labyrinth and that it doesn't fit in the classic poe gameplay. Yes, more content is good. Let people have their labyrinth. No one cares if they leave it as it is. But don't gate our character customization behind those things that are from a completely different genre. That's the whole point. Like I said, that's like GGG forcing you to play a card game to get AC points. It's the same thing, just with another genre.

So instead of trying to tell us how fun the lab is and that you don't care at all that people who don't like it actually have to play it to get their AC points, you could try to make suggestions on your own that would satisfy you and those who don't like the labyrinth. No harm in giving suggestions as long as GGG doesn't change the existing labyrinth, right?

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Casual_Ascent wrote:

Don't give the members of the bully brigade any of your attention, SeedReaper.

Any and all feedback from any and ALL players is worthy of its place on this forum. GGG should feel fortunate that people still do.

For unknown reasons, GGG has chosen to allow the bully brigade to persist in their belittling, harassment and constant breaking of the forum code. But it's their call. Their forum. I feel that the bully brigade owns a bit of this forum now as well.

Keep on doing your best to provide your views on this game. It IS important.

Sweet RNGesus the only reason you're not banned is because everything you said applies to you.

In the big lab thread I said awhile back you haven't done anything ban-worthy but I guess that was a sign to double down, as you did cross the line awhile ago.

Seriously guys, stop attacking each other. As I've already said: both sides of the argument are wrong. If you want to continue with it, there are other threads for it, anyway.

As for the "push the cart" idea: That is a good idea too, if that type of task would replace trap gauntlets in the OP's "classic mode" or my suggested "scenic route".

My objection, however, would be that it restricts builds that rely on movement skills and high speed. I suppose they would probably be doing the arcade path anyway, though.

Ace and Jon,

The problem is I think the lab is constantly changing.

And obv I don't mean the daily layout change.

I mean I'm 98% sure the monster-route and trap-route idea WAS the original implementation, based on running a bunch of times the first week, for points, enchants and carries for people. The monster-route led to the boss fights and the trap-route led to the extra stuff. I even made a post on running tips that if you see a looong series of traps it's most likely the 'wrong way'. And I thought this was a brilliant design as the monster-route still had enough traps to make it worthy, but not so many that you'd say, ok, uh, this is ridic, I came here to slay monsters and dodge the occasional spike and sawblade, not run through a bullet-hell (trap-hell).

At at some point it seems to have drastically changed to almost the opposite, or at least even... so I dunno. But the idea is obv not some far-fetched thing.

I personally like the idea in the OP. I have to assume that GGG is playing around with different solutions. The big question in my mind is whether they may go back to their original idea of what to gate the ascendancy points on or to keep it in the labyrinth and and provide an alternative way to get the ascendancy points. For those that argue then no one would ever do the labyrinth if an alternative was made available, I don't believe it. I've seen plenty of people say that they like doing the labyrinth and plenty of people do Atziri today. So I don't see what would be wrong with that.

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Ceri wrote:

Can you guys please stop derailing this thread? Thanks.

Even though I'm on TFH's side I don't think either party is derailing. In fact I'd say it's the opposite, I.e.


A: Traps are bad, they're not in arpgs and shouldn't be.

B: They ARE in arpgs, heres a list...

A: ...

B: ...


The reason much of this seems like derailing is because after all these weeks and pages of threads, we're barely past the opening statements part.

I'm trying my hardest not to point fingers. But, sometimes an argument just goes like this:


A: Here's my conjecture...

B: You are wrong, here is why...

THE END




I thought THIS thread, as it directly stems from an interaction between ACE and I, would make some headway as it is the first one that really hammers home the idea that PoE is the still sequel to D2.

A post from the big thread:

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dickhole_mcghee wrote:

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These two statements,

1. These traps were not in D2, therefore they don't belong in arpg games.

2. These traps are more than 'occasional', therefore they change the 'fundamental game play'.

are a world away from this statement,

3. These traps were not in D2, and PoE is STILL the real and true spiritual sequel to D2, therefore they don't belong in PoE.

even though they seem very similar.


...

Many people from my friend list dont playing poe anymore beacuse of labyrinth and traps.If people are quitting game they loved so much beacuse of some part of game,then something is seriosly wrong with that part.You can take a look at current HC prophecy leauge also,leauge is dead after 2 weeks,there is almost no competition for first lv 100 on hc ladder.
GGG made really bad moves in last half of year;lab,introducing frogger game in poe,free loot leauge and now prophecy which is maybe worst leauge ever by many,whats next?

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And1111 wrote:

Many people from my friend list dont playing poe anymore beacuse of labyrinth and traps.If people are quitting game they loved so much beacuse of some part of game,then something is seriosly wrong with that part.

I can say the same thing regarding act 4, a fair number of my F-list quit after it's introduction.

Perhaps if someone is willing to quit because of a small portion of the game, they have bigger issues with the game than they are willing to admit.

If you love it, you're going to push through the shit you don't like to get to the parts you do like.

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Shovelcut wrote:

I can say the same thing regarding act 4, a fair number of my F-list quit after it's introduction.

Perhaps if someone is willing to quit because of a small portion of the game, they have bigger issues with the game than they are willing to admit.

If you love it, you're going to push through the shit you don't like to get to the parts you do like.

Spoiler

Prophecy is great btw. :P

My view is that game play is a fundamentally different beast. It's the game play why I like playing PoE. Yes, there are some area's that may be more fun than others but before Labyrinth, it was still the same game play. Then the horrible trap game play was added. Many people don't like trap game play and many others that like trap game play in platform type games don't like it in PoE because of the mouse as a controller or simply because they don't like mixing different game plays in the same game or because limited visibility in the crappy labyrinth or a combination. Every time I go into the labyrinth I hate it more. It has the feel of a fundamentally different game in the trap sequences, a feeling of boredom and tedious disgust.