Feedback and Suggestions - The Labyrinth has a poor risk-to-reward structure. - Forum

" sidtherat wrote: for people knowing what they are doing the lab has no risk and some rewards (the rng on enchants is brutal). i repeat - for people who know what they are doing there is NO RISK. lab is setup in a way that pretty much EACH and EVERY player's death is his own fault. there are no BS one shots - if trap kills you it is because you let it kill you. the disconnects are more of an urband legend right now - ive experienced total of 2 DC since 2.2 and had two cases of weird 'network seizure and then fast forward into the future' cases. both deadly but for 2 months of playing it is ok btw - if you do not feel rewarded - go somewhere else. games are for fun - so you expect to be PAID to play it? is that what gaming turned into? a job? do not like how lab plays? play something you like. you need to do it only 3 times per character (2 in most cases as the third pair of points is more of 'also ran' than 'won'). want the lab to feel level appropriate? play it at around lvl 70 and youll be rewarded with level appropriate items and XP. it is your own fault to overlevel it. you do not need to. DCs are not an urban legend bro. Most of my guild quit the game because they lost their characters to disconnect deaths. This is LITERALLY the only game I have connection problems with and the times I do lag out or DC I die.	Posted by Bhrino#1569 on Jul 20, 2016, 11:22:58 PM Quote this Post
I would like to have a bit more encouragment towards getting the silver caches and the optional lab parts also, however sometimes the loot is really nice ( like mostly jewelery for example ). So I'm not sure, I like to spend timem looking for stuff sometimes, and it does feel rewarding to me. Maybe I need less carrots and stick and am more able to enjoy the content for what it is than other people too, idk. Abou DCs, only GGG knows exactly how many people are getting disconnected ( or logging out in some cases ) and how many are not, so we cannot be sure. However, seeing all the streamers be succesful, many people saying that they do not have problems, and considering the fact that people having problems are much much more likely to come on the forum and say it ..... I would think that the GGG's server's stability is at least mostly fine. SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading.	Posted by Fruz#6137 on Jul 20, 2016, 11:37:42 PM Quote this Post
" Bhrino wrote: i repeat - for people who know what they are doing there is NO RISK If by "know what they are doing" you mean "playing meta builds" then yes. I can't beat merci lab by lvl 70 MO totemist 3rd day in a row. Because 3rd day in a row there are fucking conduits, for which you can't adjust as a totemist - Izaro is always at 10+ charges at the end of first fight, and rips me in 2nd or 3rd. Almost 4k damage in one wave hit, about 3k with melee hit... it is impossible to refill my flasks fast enough lol. And that's when I'm not making any mistakes(gameplay-wise), now add to this connection issues and you have a recipe for disaster. PS. inb4: No, sometimes you CANNOT run away from him fast enough to not be hit. And worst change is putting almost all bosses in new version of maps into fucking small areas, where you can't kite well or dodge stuff. What a terrible idiot invented that I want say to him: dude flick you, seriously flick you very much.	Posted by silumit#4080 on Jul 20, 2016, 11:42:47 PM Quote this Post
" Fruz wrote: I would like to have a bit more encouragment towards getting the silver caches and the optional lab parts also, however sometimes the loot is really nice ( like mostly jewelery for example ). So I'm not sure, I like to spend timem looking for stuff sometimes, and it does feel rewarding to me. Maybe I need less carrots and stick and am more able to enjoy the content for what it is than other people too, idk. Abou DCs, only GGG knows exactly how many people are getting disconnected ( or logging out in some cases ) and how many are not, so we cannot be sure. However, seeing all the streamers be succesful, many people saying that they do not have problems, and considering the fact that people having problems are much much more likely to come on the forum and say it ..... I would think that the GGG's server's stability is at least mostly fine. Wow! That's a lot of made up information and assumptions you have going on there. GGG has admitted themselves that they have A LOT of server and netcode problems to solve.	Posted by Deleted on Jul 20, 2016, 11:54:48 PM
" Casual_Ascent wrote: Wow! That's a lot of made up information and assumptions you have going on there. GGG has admitted themselves that they have A LOT of server and netcode problems to solve. In beta ? Sure, there was a lot more to do than there is now. At the beginning of the league you mean ? sure they did, because there were a lot of issues, with everybody. Now is different. Of course they still have to improve the netcode, and they always say that they are working on it. But if you are not confident about your connection or don't trust the GGG's netcode, you should use lockstep. Now if you have a recent source from GGG saying that they have "A LOT of server and netcode problems to solve", please ... If the netcode was as bad as you ( and some other pretends ), top players could not reach 100 in HC within 2 weeks like they do. Now it obviously ( because I'm anticipating the potential stupid post coming after ) does not mean that noone has problems of any kind. SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading. Last edited by Fruz#6137 on Jul 21, 2016, 1:35:10 AM	Posted by Fruz#6137 on Jul 21, 2016, 1:31:52 AM Quote this Post
The OP made a ton of excellent points, and most of the objections here have been of the self flagellating, "I can do it, therefore it's fine." type (which is off topic in the first place). Honestly, it doesn't even need to be explained why the currently Labyrinth has a lot of problems. There is no debate on this among people who think from a game development standpoint.	Posted by Khalixxa#0534 on Jul 21, 2016, 2:06:04 AM Quote this Post
" Khalixxa wrote: The OP made a ton of excellent points, and most of the objections here have been of the self flagellating, "I can do it, therefore it's fine." type (which is off topic in the first place). Honestly, it doesn't even need to be explained why the currently Labyrinth has a lot of problems. There is no debate on this among people who think from a game development standpoint. Just wanted to point out that you come claiming stuff while bringing absolutely nothing, your message leads me to think that you don't know what game development means and implies, honestly. Like, you would have arguments, interesting elements / points etc .... but no. Just pointing that out. SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading.	Posted by Fruz#6137 on Jul 21, 2016, 2:44:29 AM Quote this Post
OP is troll post - Labyrinth is the ONLY content, that rewards player for risk!!! IGN: MortalKombat Molten Strike build guide: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1346504 There is no knowledge That is not power	Posted by MortalKombat3#6961 on Jul 21, 2016, 3:09:12 AM Quote this Post
" Khalixxa wrote: The OP made a ton of excellent points... This is seconding the points made by the OP. " Fruz wrote: Just wanted to point out that you come claiming stuff while bringing absolutely nothing, your message leads me to think that you don't know what game development means and implies, honestly. Thinking "like a game developer" usually means something a simple as "thinking scientifically" about additions to the game. For example, everything that was added to (or changed with) a game was presumably done with some purpose in mind, in other words, some hypothesis as to how players will react. Things don't always have to go perfectly, but part of being a good developer is always looking at what people actually do (the experiment) and not just what you intended them to do (the hypothesis). A lot of times, you see people make claims like "Y is fine because is does X" and then ending the argument without being empirical about whether Y actually causes X. They never move beyond the hypothesis stage. In the case of the Labyrinth, everything in it had some intent behind it, but what matters at the end of the day is what players actually do.	Posted by Khalixxa#0534 on Jul 21, 2016, 3:11:32 AM Quote this Post
" gibbousmoon wrote: A lot of people arguing against the original post have some very good points, but I don't see anyone denying the basic fact that in the labyrinths SKIPPING content is more rewarding, in both the short run and the long run, than PLAYING content. Unless you feel that that is somehow desirable (and I take it as a premise of my argument that it is not), then so long as that remains the case, there is substantial room for improvement. I take it as a given that any game design choice that incentivizes skipping content is bad design by definition, since it acknowledges that the content is a chore and a barrier to reward rather than what it should be: intrinsically fun and rewarding gameplay. In any case, I've quit the game for good as of today (uninstalled for the first time since closed beta), because I honestly hate the labyrinths that much and have way too many alts still in need of Ascending, but I wouldn't mind seeing some of these improvements made for the sake of other players. P.S. To the guy picking on the hardcore player by saying that net spikes can kill you anywhere in the game: While that is technically true, almost nowhere in the game is it as deadly as in the labyrinths, since extra life and damage mitigation helps you so little against traps. It's not comparable at all. You can't skip mandatory lab content. you can take the short way for less loot, or the long way for more loot, but certain areas must be done at a minimum. The choice is yours. I will also say this, The vast majority of uniques and high level currency I have procured from the lab, has been when I was doing a key run.	Posted by Xtorma#4606 on Jul 21, 2016, 3:21:32 AM Quote this Post