The Labyrinth has a poor risk-to-reward structure.

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Khoranth wrote:

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sidtherat wrote:

you are also a sample size of one

i believe that these network related issues happen - they do. but i have hard time believing that these are universal. and as frequent as some describe - WITHOUT them being at fault in some way. wireless connections, congested connections, daily ISP connection resets, faulty routers etc. GGG has its fair share of problems - the regular full realm crashes + crafting crashes done by some scumbags - are only some but since theyve fixed their Dallas issue there were no widespread network issues. reddit is very quick to make a fuss of every single one of them

ignoring network issues - there is literally no risk doing a lab. it is all under player control. you make a mistake - you get hurt (rarely you are killed..), you make a series of mistakes - you die.

It only takes one time for a network issue to kill you during traps. It does not need to be frequent or anything like that. If I have one single lag or freeze during traps I die and lose my character. It is fucking terrible game design for HC players.

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Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

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gibbousmoon wrote:

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Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

lol no, Labyrinth is already rewarding enough.

I think you missed the point.

The quantity of rewards isn't the problem at all; the way it is distributed is.

I offered a couple ideas on how to help the problem, which you are free to criticize as you like. But you seem to think they are the point of the post, and they are not.

You think the distribution as-is has no problems? Then defend that statement instead. I've already explained why it is problematic, so you need to poke holes in that if you want to make a decent rebuttal.

lol'd or maybe you should ?

Did you not see that i just said theres fucking strongboxes littered everywhere ? Its not uncommon to run across atleast 2 per zone in your pathing. Thats free currency in your pocket for simply clicking on a box. Ive found multiple exalts now simply by leap slamming through the zone and popping barrels too, not to mention move skills oneshot mobs in that zone which also drop loot on the way as well.

Theres absolutely nothing wrong with how the loot is distributed, you shouldnt be rewarded across the board for fucking up and dying half way through. Loot at the end SHOULD be better than the loot in the regular zones you path through. Its the reward for completion.

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gibbousmoon wrote:

A lot of people arguing against the original post have some very good points, but I don't see anyone denying the basic fact that in the labyrinths SKIPPING content is more rewarding, in both the short run and the long run, than PLAYING content.

Unless you feel that that is somehow desirable (and I take it as a premise of my argument that it is not), then so long as that remains the case, there is substantial room for improvement.

I take it as a given that any game design choice that incentivizes skipping content is bad design by definition, since it acknowledges that the content is a chore and a barrier to reward rather than what it should be: intrinsically fun and rewarding gameplay.

In any case, I've quit the game for good as of today (uninstalled for the first time since closed beta), because I honestly hate the labyrinths that much and have way too many alts still in need of Ascending, but I wouldn't mind seeing some of these improvements made for the sake of other players.



P.S. To the guy picking on the hardcore player by saying that net spikes can kill you anywhere in the game: While that is technically true, almost nowhere in the game is it as deadly as in the labyrinths, since extra life and damage mitigation helps you so little against traps. It's not comparable at all.

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Pyrokar wrote:

I like the way you respond to people OP and i hate to see you go
This game\forum needs more mature-acting people like you

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gibbousmoon wrote:

[
I've seen some other cool people disappear from this game, too. It's an unfortunate reality that when you change your game in ways that inspire love/hate, the haters will all leave while the lovers remain to defend your changes by tooth and nail. This can skew development priorities, as it increasingly seems that your playerbase has accepted your controversial changes.

Ah, well. I'm sure GGG is in a better position to make such judgments than I, having direct access to player numbers and all. Perhaps they aren't bleeding players as much as it seems to me (or perhaps they are replacing them just as fast as they are losing them, which from a pure business position can often be just as good).

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gibbousmoon wrote:

Perhaps the most fundamental problem with the labyrinth, other than the four items I list above, is that it incentivizes your players to SKIP content to
A) beat the odds of getting disconnected from the server and having all that time wasted, and
B) compensate for the fact that the road TO Izaro is both deadly and not particularly rewarding.