[Poll] It's been a month now, how much do you like the labyrinth/acendancy class/enchantments?

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Jgizle wrote:

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Jgizle wrote:

In the end it is the non vocal majority that decides if change is needed.

With less than 2k people of the entire player base saying they dislike lab, change is not comming any time soon.

If I disliked lab so much and wanted it to change, id voice my opinion on the forum and hope it changes. If I think its fine though id either never go to the forums, or go to the forums and voice my opinion on why it needs to stay the way it is.

Just in the steam client there are over 37k players. So realistically the players who dislike lab are extremely niche. Now if we are to assume the amount of players playing at once is similar or better than it was in 2014 (70k players at same time at peak hours according to chris wilson) then we get a perspective of how miniscule lab haters are who have voiced their opinion. Less than 3% of the entire currently active player base. And thats the best case scenario if we said 2000 different people dislike lab.

Source : http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.838339-Path-of-Exile-Accumulated-3-7-Million-Player-Accounts-in-2013

The reason hardcore players are lower is simply they are dying, pro veterans and noobs alike. When people are adjusted to the difficulty lab provides they will be able to overcome it. It is hard to know if you can beat Uber Lab or not without trying
In a hardcore scenario you either beat it or die. Explains the numbers perfectly well. Hardcore is a niche. Standard and softcore have always had more players, and standard has always had more than both league and hardcore.

Sorry, this makes even less sense. HC players have always had characters die yet they used to have a larger community. GGG has fixed the desync problem so the HC population should be growing not shrinking. Why is it shrinking? The simplest explanation, but not the only, is the labyrinth.

reasons HC shrunk:

less braging rights due to lack of HC only rewards
less bribe uniques as there were no HC only uniques for some time
less incentive to play due to both HC and SC getting the same content
no HC only achievements
atlas made standard very popular this league

these are hard facts.

i might add:
old time players that usualy form HC population left due to natural attrition
new players got shafted for THRID time in a row with outrageous tech issues after release. deaths due to game mechanics are ok. dying at 89 to some random server freeze (that goes unfixed for weeks) is disastrous
no races. races and HC leagues had similar target demographic. races gone so no reason to stick by


lab is just minor pimple compared to these. and even if - people that play HC and leave due to sifficulty are at best HC wannabes that shouldnt have ever played HC in the first place

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sidtherat wrote:

reasons HC shrunk:

less braging rights due to lack of HC only rewards
less bribe uniques as there were no HC only uniques for some time
less incentive to play due to both HC and SC getting the same content
no HC only achievements
atlas made standard very popular this league

these are hard facts.

i might add:
old time players that usualy form HC population left due to natural attrition
new players got shafted for THRID time in a row with outrageous tech issues after release. deaths due to game mechanics are ok. dying at 89 to some random server freeze (that goes unfixed for weeks) is disastrous
no races. races and HC leagues had similar target demographic. races gone so no reason to stick by


lab is just minor pimple compared to these. and even if - people that play HC and leave due to sifficulty are at best HC wannabes that shouldnt have ever played HC in the first place

+1

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sidtherat wrote:

lab is just minor pimple compared to these. and even if - people that play HC and leave due to sifficulty are at best HC wannabes that shouldnt have ever played HC in the first place

Ah, the age-old "they don't like the labyrinth because they are scrubs who need to git gud" argument. It remains as compelling as it has every other time you put it forth. Which is to say, not at all.

The HC Labyrinth (even in Normal) is a pretty large pimple, especially since the game's difficulty is balanced around attaining Ascendancy points.

I started spending less time in HC after the game's technical issues killed a few of my HC character in the Lab. Even if you love the Lab, you can't deny that it amplifies any and all remaining unsolved technical issues. Latency spikes are much more deadly there than anywhere else in the game, including most bosses, for players who are used to such issues.

Out of disgust, I didn't replace those HC characters, though I continue to play the ones I have.

I won't bother making any sweeping generalizations about the relationship between the Labyrinth and the shrinking HC population, but I can put forth my own personal experiences, and suggest that they may not be as unusual as you imply.

this isnt 'gut gud'. it is 'people that LIKE challenges turned tail when new one appeared on the horizon'.

it is more about pretending than not being good enough.


as for the lab - you claim that content is balanced around AC. i call it a cunning lie. maps PERHAPS are balanced (however the slight increase in mobs HP got.. isnt really a balance). but you imply that LEVELING also got affected and i call this one bollocks.

there is NOTHING in the core game (pre-maps) that requires AC. most classes get VERY little from their first ascension because the multipliers need a substantial base to be felt and at lvl 35 your base is still miniscule. it is FAR better to get a fated unique than first or even the second ascension.

so this part of your 'argument' i consider moot, bordering manipulation and FUD - unless you can point out what parts of the late Normal and Cruel require AC points? can you?

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sidtherat wrote:

this isnt 'gut gud'. it is 'people that LIKE challenges turned tail when new one appeared on the horizon'.

If by "new challenges" you mean "challenges which amplify PoE's existing technical faults far more than the previous ones" then yes, I have to agree.

It was certainly enough to drive me away from HC (partially, at least, as I described above).

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as for the lab - you claim that content is balanced around AC. i call it a cunning lie. maps PERHAPS are balanced (however the slight increase in mobs HP got.. isnt really a balance). but you imply that LEVELING also got affected and i call this one bollocks.

there is NOTHING in the core game (pre-maps) that requires AC. most classes get VERY little from their first ascension because the multipliers need a substantial base to be felt and at lvl 35 your base is still miniscule. it is FAR better to get a fated unique than first or even the second ascension.

so this part of your 'argument' i consider moot, bordering manipulation and FUD - unless you can point out what parts of the late Normal and Cruel require AC points? can you?

Nope. I also consider that non-relevant - unless you can point out what large parts of the PoE population play until they are map capable and then quit? can you?

Slightly necro-ing this thread because I hadn't seen it before and as happy to hear that I'm not alone in hating the lab. I've just recently switched to HC as an added challenge because I like caring about defenses and whether I live or die during the core game, but I absolutely hate the arcade game-play that we find inside the lab in the form of traps.

What I like about arpgs or rpgs in general is that you can be rewarded for game knowledge, and for grinding easier zones if you feel that it is too risky to progress (either because you're underleveled or undergeared). The lab runs contrary to this essential aspect of rpgs. It doesn't matter whether you are level 100 and geared to the teeth, if you make a dumb mistake and sit on a trap too long, you're toast.

I would actually be sort of fine with this IF it was completely optional content, which it isn't. End game is tuned to Ascendancies, and Ascending is a defining aspect of every current build. The lab is no longer "optional content" (and in my opinion it never was).

It's nerve wrecking to know that you can lose everything you've done so far on a piece of content that you would never run but you need to because it is the only way of progressing through the skill tree.

I hope 3.0 brings some very needed lab changes, there is actually another great thread with excellent suggestions that I've found: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1609216

If you hate the lab too, please be vocal about it. Let the lab exist but make it OPTIONAL as it should be, by setting ascendancies FREE.

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Hubologist wrote:

What I like about arpgs or rpgs in general is that you can be rewarded for game knowledge, and for grinding easier zones if you feel that it is too risky to progress (either because you're underleveled or undergeared). The lab runs contrary to this essential aspect of rpgs.

thist completely shows your lack of knowledge about even basics of lab mecanics.
so you kinda owned yourself.

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mezmery wrote:

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Hubologist wrote:

What I like about arpgs or rpgs in general is that you can be rewarded for game knowledge, and for grinding easier zones if you feel that it is too risky to progress (either because you're underleveled or undergeared). The lab runs contrary to this essential aspect of rpgs.

thist completely shows your lack of knowledge about even basics of lab mecanics.
so you kinda owned yourself.

I assume that what Huologist is refering to is the fact that traps do a percentage of the life pool damage. The life pool for most characters gets larger as they gain levels but the traps at the same difficulty do more since the life pool has grown. edit: For example, if a toon has a life pool of 2000 and a trap did 20% damage then that would be 400 damage. If the toon returned to the same trap with a life pool of 4000 the trap did 20% damage then that would be 800 damage. This is double the damage for the same trap. That is contrary to the way monster damage works in PoE.

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Turtledove wrote:

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mezmery wrote:

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Hubologist wrote:

What I like about arpgs or rpgs in general is that you can be rewarded for game knowledge, and for grinding easier zones if you feel that it is too risky to progress (either because you're underleveled or undergeared). The lab runs contrary to this essential aspect of rpgs.

thist completely shows your lack of knowledge about even basics of lab mecanics.
so you kinda owned yourself.

I assume that what Huologist is refering to is the fact that traps do a percentage of the life pool damage. The life pool for most characters gets larger as they gain levels but the traps at the same difficulty do more since the life pool has grown.

25% is still 25%, doesn't matter if you have 10k life or 2k life.