SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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Xavathos wrote:

Be careful, there's no turning back once you're on..... the list.....

Wisdom is the offspring of suffering and time.

Absolutely false, I'll happily remove anyone from the list. All that is required is a simple request from the account name on the list that would like to be removed.

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Turtledove wrote:

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Xavathos wrote:

Be careful, there's no turning back once you're on..... the list.....

Wisdom is the offspring of suffering and time.

Absolutely false, I'll happily remove anyone from the list. All that is required is a simple request from the account name on the list that would like to be removed.

Oh, I'm convinced that's true! But that wasn't what I meant at all. :)

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The_Reporter wrote:

Okay. What did you mean?

It was a movie reference. One that you haven't seen, I guess. :)

It's not important and it wasn't an insult. I hope that doesn't disappoint you.

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CleoGenius wrote:

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Char1983 wrote:

You see, the lab is not loathsome. The lab is loathsome for you, and maybe others. Why, I don't know, I kinda assume that it is because you don't like stuff that challenges your ability to control your character. But again, I am not sure.

Maybe comming up with reason is challenging your brain to much. But i can give you one:
Its like playing a completely different game. If i wanted to play a jump and run, i would play one. But i prefer poe as a hack and slay.

Hey to be fair at least Char isnt trying to create another asinine comparison between the lab and a starcraft indoor mission as two totally different games.

As I said there in my own thread about the loathsome lab, blizzard doesn't create three fights with a one shot boss and delete the save game feature.

And that right there honestly I feel is the bigger issue than even the jump and run aspect. the lab honestly isn't that much of a different game, I feel it's challenge level is exactly what PoE should be with one key flaw, which people like char and the git gud crowd don't get.

It's forced hardcore.

THAT is the key flaw. I'd love to learn the mechanics of the izzaro fights, i'd love to take the time to explore the lab to find the loot, and i'd love to learn proper trap evasion.

What i DON'T love however is having to take 15 minutes to run back to izzaro to learn from a mistake every time I die!

Or having one misclick onto a spear trap in a game honestly not meant for that destroy an entire run.

Or deal with an overtuned boss three times in a row who because of bad timing blew through 2000 life and 1600 mana (mind over matter) with a point blank skull barrage and a love tap when I tried lab 3 a minute ago. Because who doesn't love OP bosses and having to run back through endless mobs and 3 maps just to get to fight 1 again, much less the rest?

Or as I've learned reading, countless lab runs to pray for a good enchant roll if you get there?

If the lab just had checkpoints like every part of PoE I would say don't change a thing, even if it still seems broken as heck that you can outlevel izzaro in a sense, yet then have to deal with a broken percent based mechanic where the traps in fight 3 actually become more of a threat.

And whoever thought covering a room with stun locking spear traps in a fight where one hit from izzaro will plaster most builds really needs to be fired.

Oh but I forget, then you can zerg everything right?

Well number one no one explains how letting more people into the lab hurts the game, unless people like their hold on the economy. But that's an "outside" issue.

But number two here's honestly where I think the main game gets it wrong. The bosses have to be zerged because he bosses really are far over tuned and way too one shotty even with max res. I'd much prefer PoE bosses to be toned down, but like the lab in one regard to reset on death. It'd make for more interesting fights then facerolling and getting frustrated at 20+ deaths on fights like kitava a5 and the brine king.

But the game is what it is, and it's what we play. So when you are used to one aspect, and you find yourself suddenly having to deal with another I would hope people could see why it's found to be frustrating and unfun for a majority of the playerbase, more so when you have locked vital parts of the gameplay behind it.

But that's half the lab's fault, half the main game's fault, but all GGG's "folly" (i love that one too) for how its designed. And honestly i think my plan for tonight will be to ask in global for a lab carry, run #3 for the points, and never touch this loathsome crap content ever again. It's not worth the frustration.

All it needs is a check point though, that too much to ask GGG?

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Dragonkat42 wrote:

Or deal with an overtuned boss three times in a row who because of bad timing blew through 2000 life and 1600 mana (mind over matter) with a point blank skull barrage and a love tap when I tried lab 3 a minute ago.

He shouldn't be doing those at all as long as you're within a certain (fairly generous) radius from him, there's enough room to evade all his moves and never see a barrage. Maybe he did a barrage and then charged or jumped on you, that kind of combo is best avoided.

Izaro is a fair and well designed boss overall, he does a lot of damage but everything he does is well telegraphed, highly visible and avoidable, unlike some other bosses they introduced recently and which we shall not name. You can't zerg, him, sure, and that's why they made his fights clean and highly predictable, once you learn the boss it's kinda hard to screw up.

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raics wrote:

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Dragonkat42 wrote:

Or deal with an overtuned boss three times in a row who because of bad timing blew through 2000 life and 1600 mana (mind over matter) with a point blank skull barrage and a love tap when I tried lab 3 a minute ago.

He shouldn't be doing those at all as long as you're within a certain (fairly generous) radius from him, there's enough room to evade all his moves and never see a barrage. Maybe he did a barrage and then charged or jumped on you, that kind of combo is best avoided.

Izaro is a fair and well designed boss overall, he does a lot of damage but everything he does is well telegraphed, highly visible and avoidable, unlike some other bosses they introduced recently and which we shall not name. You can't zerg, him, sure, and that's why they made his fights clean and highly predictable, once you learn the boss it's kinda hard to screw up.

I believe that you missed his point. Izaro would be a fine boss if he weren't in the lab. Since he's in the labyrinth, that makes him a loathsome boss. For Dragonkat42, checkpoints/waypoints would be enough to make labyrinth palatable. For me, labyrinth would still not be fun but, it would make it less frustrating and much better.

@Regulator, what about adding the good idea of a lab safe room to portal to that wouldn't refill flasks/health/mana but would allow real life interruptions (and ideally trading)? Let's make the loathsome labyrinth less loathsome!

The key word you missed was point blank.

I was right next to izzy when skulls popped, no travel time and impossible to dodge, the stun lick then left me two shotted. Dumb mistake but also a symptom of oe's way overtuned bosses.

Honest answer, should a combined 3600 life and mana be gone in two attacks? It's insane. But if it wasn't a hardcore setting I'd deal. The fact it is however and the fact you need to perfectly pull this off three times with broken trap mechanics / damage is what makes it totally unfun.

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Turtledove wrote:

I believe that you missed his point. Izaro would be a fine boss if he weren't in the lab. Since he's in the labyrinth, that makes him a loathsome boss.

Sure, I mentioned the only significant difference is you can't zerg him like campaign bosses. That's why they made his fight hard to screw up once you know what's what, well, at least learning him is free, some bosses cost money.

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Dragonkat42 wrote:

The key word you missed was point blank.

I was right next to izzy when skulls popped, no travel time and impossible to dodge, the stun lick then left me two shotted. Dumb mistake but also a symptom of oe's way overtuned bosses.

Honest answer, should a combined 3600 life and mana be gone in two attacks? It's insane. But if it wasn't a hardcore setting I'd deal. The fact it is however and the fact you need to perfectly pull this off three times with broken trap mechanics / damage is what makes it totally unfun.

That's why I asked about it, I never ever saw him use the barrage point blank. How high was your MoM? If it's vanilla 30% you didn't have 3600 combined, you had 2600 which is on the low side for merci Izzy, if that was the one.

I can't agree he's overtuned, sorry, if he had that damage and the fight was a clusterfuck like Yugul, Malachai or Kitava, then yes. He wants to play with you and the rules of his game are clear, he won't cheat you like some other bosses.

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raics wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

I believe that you missed his point. Izaro would be a fine boss if he weren't in the lab. Since he's in the labyrinth, that makes him a loathsome boss.

Sure, I mentioned the only significant difference is you can't zerg him like campaign bosses. That's why they made his fight hard to screw up once you know what's what, well, at least learning him is free, some bosses cost money.

Inability to zerg Izaro is not what makes him a loathsome boss. As mentioned by Dragonkat, unwillingness to play loathsome content and the gating factor of Izaro to have to repeat the whole loathsome content all over again is what makes Izaro a bad boss. When playing a good boss it is fun to learn the mechanics of the boss. If Izaro was elsewhere he would be a fun boss. While in lab he just adds to the frustration because repeating lab is a horrible bore and so learning Izaro boss fight is not a fun process.