SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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Xavathos wrote:

The Lab has already (again) undergone recent changes that made runs far more worthwhile and easier. It's also easier to qualify to enter the Lab at all but Uber stages of the game.

It is now in a perfect balance between power/wealth gain, time spent and challenge.

It is not meant to have other things suggested here,...

I didn't like Lab when it first came out - I'm on the list :-) - now I'm more neutral about it, changes that GGG implemented have help and I kinda agree with you, but this

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gibbousmoon wrote:

Implement an area to which you can teleport (*inside* the lab) akin to Zana's room, in that it does not refill your flasks, but it does allow you to answer the door, answer the phone, attend a crying baby, or do any number of real-life tasks that come up.

would be a nice QoL without hurting imho...

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Wazz72 wrote:

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Xavathos wrote:

The Lab has already (again) undergone recent changes that made runs far more worthwhile and easier. It's also easier to qualify to enter the Lab at all but Uber stages of the game.

It is now in a perfect balance between power/wealth gain, time spent and challenge.

It is not meant to have other things suggested here,...

I didn't like Lab when it first came out - I'm on the list :-) - now I'm more neutral about it, changes that GGG implemented have help and I kinda agree with you, but this

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gibbousmoon wrote:

Implement an area to which you can teleport (*inside* the lab) akin to Zana's room, in that it does not refill your flasks, but it does allow you to answer the door, answer the phone, attend a crying baby, or do any number of real-life tasks that come up.

would be a nice QoL without hurting imho...

Sure, I can get behind that.

"Izaro for better parenting."

I can picture the banner already. :P

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Xavathos wrote:

The Lab has already (again) undergone recent changes that made runs far more worthwhile and easier. It's also easier to qualify to enter the Lab at all but Uber stages of the game.
...

Yes, GGG has improved the loathsome content by reducing it. Making players run characters through reduced content that is loathsome really is appreciated and a big enough improvement to make the game playable again for me personally. Ideas presented in this thread would make the loathsome content fun for me and for many others. Making games fun rather than loathsome is the best way to go, IMHO.

edit:

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Xavathos wrote:

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Wazz72 wrote:

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Xavathos wrote:

The Lab has already (again) undergone recent changes that made runs far more worthwhile and easier. It's also easier to qualify to enter the Lab at all but Uber stages of the game.

It is now in a perfect balance between power/wealth gain, time spent and challenge.

It is not meant to have other things suggested here,...

I didn't like Lab when it first came out - I'm on the list :-) - now I'm more neutral about it, changes that GGG implemented have help and I kinda agree with you, but this

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gibbousmoon wrote:

Implement an area to which you can teleport (*inside* the lab) akin to Zana's room, in that it does not refill your flasks, but it does allow you to answer the door, answer the phone, attend a crying baby, or do any number of real-life tasks that come up.

would be a nice QoL without hurting imho...

Sure, I can get behind that.

"Izaro for better parenting."

I can picture the banner already. :P

Regulator, gibbousmoon's idea here really would reduce some of the loathsomeness of labyrinth. I think that it is unique enough to be considered for addition to the OP? Perhaps even allow trading somehow would be even nicer?

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Turtledove wrote:

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Xavathos wrote:

Sure, I can get behind that.

"Izaro for better parenting."

I can picture the banner already. :P

Regulator, gibbousmoon's idea here really would reduce some of the loathsomeness of labyrinth. I think that it is unique enough to be considered for addition to the OP?

I find your vocabulary rather loathsome of late. Surely there must be something you can do. Maybe we should start another list?

In case you don't get my point, try to be constructive in your feedback. How is this helping anyone?

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Turtledove wrote:

Yes, GGG has improved the loathsome content by reducing it. Making players run characters through reduced content that is loathsome really is appreciated and a big enough improvement to make the game playable again for me personally. Ideas presented in this thread would make the loathsome content fun for me and for many others. Making games fun rather than loathsome is the best way to go, IMHO.

Many of the ideas here in the thread would turn the lab from interesting into loathsome content. The traps and the semi-hardcore content are what make it fun. For me.

Also, if they wanted to remove loathsome content, they should reduce the number of fusings required for a 6link massively. And essentially remove the need to trade to need end-game. Also make a significant part of the game harder. For me.

You see, the lab is not loathsome. The lab is loathsome for you, and maybe others. Why, I don't know, I kinda assume that it is because you don't like stuff that challenges your ability to control your character. But again, I am not sure.

Apart from that, your vocabulary is not getting any less loathsome, and by repeating the same words you won't convince anyone (at least not me) that the lab is bad, because most of us can think for ourselves.

Also, apart from everything else, the eternal lab was not reduced, if anything, I would say it was extended.

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Char1983 wrote:

You see, the lab is not loathsome. The lab is loathsome for you, and maybe others. Why, I don't know, I kinda assume that it is because you don't like stuff that challenges your ability to control your character. But again, I am not sure.

Maybe comming up with reason is challenging your brain to much. But i can give you one:
Its like playing a completely different game. If i wanted to play a jump and run, i would play one. But i prefer poe as a hack and slay.

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CleoGenius wrote:

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Char1983 wrote:

You see, the lab is not loathsome. The lab is loathsome for you, and maybe others. Why, I don't know, I kinda assume that it is because you don't like stuff that challenges your ability to control your character. But again, I am not sure.

Maybe comming up with reason is challenging your brain to much. But i can give you one:
Its like playing a completely different game. If i wanted to play a jump and run, i would play one. But i prefer poe as a hack and slay.

Exactly correct, I would like the game play of lab to be the same fun game play as the rest of PoE. It was really a bad decision on GGG's part to come up with content that requires different game play and then to lock such important character development mechanisms behind like ascendancy points.

On a slightly different note, it's unclear to me, CleoGenius, if you agree that the PoE would be better for you if the game play was the same as the rest of PoE or you're just significantly more intelligent than people who've stated confusion on the matter. The reason I contemplate this is whether I should add you to the list or not?

Be careful, there's no turning back once you're on..... the list.....

Wisdom is the offspring of suffering and time.

Would have loved to see a more challenging piece of content, as it stands now you can just run right through it all. They made the first 2-3 labs a joke so the new influx of players could do it while they are learning the game. The last lab is just full of goodies and treasures to distract you from everything else about the lab.

The lab is essentially a different game when you enter it, since the game isn't about killing enemies or what build you have.. its just about dodging traps or brute forcing your way through. A lot of things that make the rest of PoE great don't show up in the lab. Being a different game at that point, some people make like it and some people won't.

I run it for my points, and for gloves/boot enchants since those are farmable. It's not the worst thing in the world.. but it's far from great imo.

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e1337donkey wrote:

Would have loved to see a more challenging piece of content, as it stands now you can just run right through it all. They made the first 2-3 labs a joke so the new influx of players could do it while they are learning the game. The last lab is just full of goodies and treasures to distract you from everything else about the lab.

The lab is essentially a different game when you enter it, since the game isn't about killing enemies or what build you have.. its just about dodging traps or brute forcing your way through. A lot of things that make the rest of PoE great don't show up in the lab. Being a different game at that point, some people make like it and some people won't.

I run it for my points, and for gloves/boot enchants since those are farmable. It's not the worst thing in the world.. but it's far from great imo.

I agree with this, more or less, except that I go into lab for points and that's it. If I can shave off 2 seconds of time spent in lab, then I'll happily do it.

Rather than accept that lab is fundamentally not a fun experience for a multitude of players and fix that, GGG does the following:

1. Shortens the time spent in lab (obviously a symptom of problems, not the full extent of the problems)
2. Put more lipstick on lab (ie: more rewards) to distract people from what's behind the lipstick

The lipstick seems to work for some who keep carrying on about how rewarding it is to play a platform minigame instead of the rest of the game.

I like Turtle's phrase "loathesome lab". I think another good nickname for lab would be "GGG's folly".