SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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goetzjam wrote:

Really dude, I'm saying you aren't going to die to the traps unless you play stupid, the "lag" excuse is just a terrible excuse for whatever stupid fucking circumstance you put yourself in. They simple can't designed the game knowing you have issues with lag "constantly"

Seriously if you have that much issues with lag outside of the lab, then you shouldnt fucking be playing HC in the first place, either your using HC\lag as an poor excuse for your terrible play or for the fact that you don't like the lab so you want to use it as an excuse in general.

Fucking stop with the stupid fucking response already.

You serious? You do not need to "lag constantly" to die to traps, if you lag just once at a bad time in traps frogger, you die. If the game freezes just once at a bad time in traps frogger, you die.

In the rest of POE, if you lag or the game freezes your blocking armour dodge evasion ect can keep you alive, this is not the case in frogger.

How can you not understand this? seems simple

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Khoranth wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

Really dude, I'm saying you aren't going to die to the traps unless you play stupid, the "lag" excuse is just a terrible excuse for whatever stupid fucking circumstance you put yourself in. They simple can't designed the game knowing you have issues with lag "constantly"

Seriously if you have that much issues with lag outside of the lab, then you shouldnt fucking be playing HC in the first place, either your using HC\lag as an poor excuse for your terrible play or for the fact that you don't like the lab so you want to use it as an excuse in general.

Fucking stop with the stupid fucking response already.

You serious? You do not need to "lag constantly" to die to traps, if you lag just once at a bad time in traps frogger, you die. If the game freezes just once at a bad time in traps frogger, you die.

In the rest of POE, if you lag or the game freezes your blocking armour dodge evasion ect can keep you alive, this is not the case in frogger.

How can you not understand this? seems simple

You make it seem like the rest of the game if you lag you dont have the possibility to die as well, guess what you can. In addition the lab is done on characters before the character progression is that far, so you supporting this argument that the AC points need to be moved from the lab because you can die inside of it to lag is asinine.


How can you not understand that you've already spent more time complaining in this thread then it will take you to do the lab MULTIPLE times.

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Regulator wrote:

@Khoranth

While i agree that labyrinth (as the rest of the game) is way more punishing in HC enviroment, the basic forced playstyle is what makes it comparable to arcade games. Im telling you this cause as you have surely know by now WK dont give a fuck about reasoning (not that it matters this feedback is for GGG, but the arguments are for everyone i guess), and they for an utterly weird reason make it a matter of difficulty everytime something like that is mentioned. Both in HC and SC its a 1chance run, jumping over obstacles like frogger or prince of persia arcade game. In both instances you loose time if you do not succeed, with that time possibly being WAY WAY much more in HC if you happen to die as you correctly point to even the tiniest of lags. Dont fuel their zealotism :)

I honestly wouldnt mind suffering through labyrinth 3 times to get 6/6 ascendancy, if i wasnt worried about losing my character. Yes, I hate frogger, and playing frogger in POE is stupid, but i could suck it up and suffer through it, if it wasnt for the fact that i can so easily lose my character due to lag or game freezing in frogger labyrinth.

Being forced to suffer by GGG for 6/6 ascendancy isnt what made me quit POE, i quit because of the fact that the frogger game can make me so easily lose my character due to lag or game freezing.

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goetzjam wrote:

You make it seem like the rest of the game if you lag you dont have the possibility to die as well, guess what you can. In addition the lab is done on characters before the character progression is that far, so you supporting this argument that the AC points need to be moved from the lab because you can die inside of it to lag is asinine.


How can you not understand that you've already spent more time complaining in this thread then it will take you to do the lab MULTIPLE times.

I have 6/6 on all my HC characters, I know how easy and fast lab is.

And in the rest of POE my armor block dodge evasion ect count, so I can stack these defenses on my characters to drastically increase my chances of surviving lag and game freezes. That stuff is trashed in traps frogger.

How is that not obvious? I actually need to state this?

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Khoranth wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

You make it seem like the rest of the game if you lag you dont have the possibility to die as well, guess what you can. In addition the lab is done on characters before the character progression is that far, so you supporting this argument that the AC points need to be moved from the lab because you can die inside of it to lag is asinine.


How can you not understand that you've already spent more time complaining in this thread then it will take you to do the lab MULTIPLE times.

I have 6/6 on all my HC characters, I know how easy and fast lab is.

And in the rest of POE my armor block dodge evasion ect count, so I can stack these defenses on my characters to drastically increase my chances of surviving lag and game freezes. That stuff is trashed in traps frogger.

How is that not obvious? I actually need to state this?

So because you spend like 1 hour total in the lab and 99.99% of the rest of the time outside the lab where your other forms of defenses worked it isn't acceptable?

I mean the traps are designed around NO ONE having defensive options that work against them, so that people avoid them or at least don't purposely just encounter them.


You complete the lab early on in your characters progression, so to say your really risking anything after you've already done it idk.


Frogger, lol, that would indicate that you need to move backwards constantly, there is only like 2 sets of traps that require you to go back, but all of them have patterns so you can completely avoid them.

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goetzjam wrote:

So because you spend like 1 hour total in the lab and 99.99% of the rest of the time outside the lab where your other forms of defenses worked it isn't acceptable?

I mean the traps are designed around NO ONE having defensive options that work against them, so that people avoid them or at least don't purposely just encounter them.


You complete the lab early on in your characters progression, so to say your really risking anything after you've already done it idk.


Frogger, lol, that would indicate that you need to move backwards constantly, there is only like 2 sets of traps that require you to go back, but all of them have patterns so you can completely avoid them.

Once again, a nonsense response that does not address my issue with frogger traps: if you lag or the game freezes at the wrong time, you die, your armor evasion block dodge ect are all ignored.

This is a stupid type of content to add to an online ARPG.

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gibbousmoon wrote:

Wow. So many in this thread either didn't bother to read the initial post or have serious reading comprehension skills. "OP wants something for nothing hurr durr..." What is wrong with you people?

OP, I have to disagree with your suggestion in favor of my own:

1. Keep the Labyrinths tied to Ascendancy. So much work was put into the atmosphere, writing, voice acting, etc. It would be a waste to decouple them. And it would be seriously demotivating to the people at GGG.

2. Remove the traps from the labyrinth.

3. Make the labyrinths harder.

Ascendancy is unique among expansions in that it is the first one that encourages players to SKIP the new content. That's right: It's more profitable (and a hell of a lot safer) to take shortcuts, use movement skills to cheese past the traps, and not engage any of the optional content on the way to Izaro.

Contrast this with maps (or any other area of the game, really), where the more you explore, the more rewards you get. Yes, yes, bosses are pinatas, I grant. But not to any extreme extent; the drops you get on the way to a boss are almost always just as good.

This is a BIG problem. Any content that discourages you from playing it is, almost by definition, poorly designed content.

GGG could fix this REALLY easily, without wasting too much of the effort they already put in by

A) Removing the traps. The traps are what is driving people away from the game.
B) Making the labyrinth more labyrinth-y. Right now the labyrinths are way too easy to navigate. Just hug the right wall, and before you know it, you made it to Izaro. Keys are rarely needed, and I rarely encounter the (fun!) puzzles.

The labyrinth needs to be made harder. More keys, more locked doors, more non-optional puzzles.

And remove the fucking traps. They encourage cheese (movement skills), piss off your playerbase, and--for the few people who enjoy them--don't add all that much.

Finally, set the area before each Izaro encounter to lock a player to that location (as if it is an Act location), so that players who get disconnected will automatically be sent there once they rejoin the game.

It's actually not that hard or complicated to fix. GGG just needs to swallow its collective pride and DO it.

Actually, I like this suggestion. It is not my favorite and is not likely to please people that currently love labyrinth and is not likely to be implemented by GGG. It is not technically "removing AC from lab" but it hit the nail on the head regarding the boring traps. I suggest it be given consideration to be added to the OP.

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Khoranth wrote:

In the rest of POE, if you lag or the game freezes your blocking armour dodge evasion ect can keep you alive, this is not the case in frogger.

*Slightly Off-Topic Fun Fact*
Some experimenting with lag and mitigation with one of my friends has indicated that lag plays with your life regeneration. Experiment: Typical RF build (friend) with sufficient regen/resistance to prevent loss of life while RF is up. Using new skills/MTX'd skills to induce lag while in my HO caused my friend's RF build to lose life (rapidly). Once he stopped lagging, his life began going up again. Not entirely on-topic but lag at least stops/lowers your life regen. It's very possible it causes other mitigating defenses (block, etc) to be ignored. Goetz is 100% correct in saying that lag is it's own issue and it causes death outside as well as inside the lab. If you want to complain about lag, complain about lag. If you want to complain about the lab, stick to issues related to lab mechanics/layouts/items/etc.

Update to this thread: I run the lab almost every day now. It's actually really fun once you learn to streamline the rewards aspect of it (I don't run it on long layout days, etc). Basically whenever I get bored of maps (and how can you not get bored of maps at some point) I run the lab a few times (provided it's a good layout, which seems to occur fairly frequently) because:
1) There's almost always decent strongboxes in there (arcanist, artisan, gemcutter).
2) You can get lab-unique items in there (some are good, nothing extreme but good enough and trade-able as well).
3) You can enchant equipment for any characters that lack the enchants (I usually run on 1 character because Izaro is fast on him and enchant gear for the rest)
4) Long and unlucky days take, at a maximum on merciless, 15 minutes total (that counts time to stop and deposit items)
5) It's one of the few things in POE that GUARANTEES rewards. 98% of the content in this game is all about the punishment with very little reward. It's nice to have something that will 100% of the time give you SOMETHING even if it's not exactly what you're looking for at that moment.

I do think some work needs to go into either allowing enchantments to be swapped between helms (via a currency sink with possibly losing (1) of the enchantments or some other mechanic) but other than that I'm pleased with the lab. I think a lot of people don't give it a fair shake. The first maybe 10x I ran the lab it was in fact a little boring/tedious. Once you know what you're doing, however, it goes fast and it's pretty fun. I say people don't give it a fair shake because realistically the traps are such a small part of the lab. 80% of the lab pathway to Izaro is trap free. On a day with no gold doors it might even be less. There are days, unlucky days, when the layout is trap heavy and redundant but there are also days when every map you run drops no maps so Orange Jesus will always piss on you occasionally and there's nothing for that.

Run it a dozen times or so and then I'll take your opinion seriously, till then I think you're being a little childish about something you haven't tried sufficiently.

Topic should really just be "how to make it so I dont have to do traps" because thats all it really is.

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Khoranth wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

Really dude, I'm saying you aren't going to die to the traps unless you play stupid, the "lag" excuse is just a terrible excuse for whatever stupid fucking circumstance you put yourself in. They simple can't designed the game knowing you have issues with lag "constantly"

Seriously if you have that much issues with lag outside of the lab, then you shouldnt fucking be playing HC in the first place, either your using HC\lag as an poor excuse for your terrible play or for the fact that you don't like the lab so you want to use it as an excuse in general.

Fucking stop with the stupid fucking response already.

You serious? You do not need to "lag constantly" to die to traps, if you lag just once at a bad time in traps frogger, you die. If the game freezes just once at a bad time in traps frogger, you die.

In the rest of POE, if you lag or the game freezes your blocking armour dodge evasion ect can keep you alive, this is not the case in frogger.

How can you not understand this? seems simple

The rude foul mouth person just responds irrationally, frequently contradicting himself from one post to the next. I've concluded that it usually has little value in bothering to respond.