SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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The_Reporter wrote:

Both of you last two posters are incorrect in your assumptions. Reread everything, and try again.

Yeah thats easy to say.

The poster before me is incorrect with what they read reread everything and try again.

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qwqwqw333_final wrote:

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Zalhan2 wrote:

If you want to make meaningful change in your life go some where and protest something that will matter. This is just fun venting about a game with a (bad atm)_ focused Vision.

Its their world (and rightly so) if you don't like it, move on like I did.

Your incredible life experience is not a solid argument.

Maybe you should move on, again.

Technically moving on again would be going from not playing to to playing umm no thanks.

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Simplesim45 wrote:

All these bold claims you guys are making about "bad design philosophy" and how they don't want to communicate.

Why would they communicate with a minority that gets off on complaining and rejecting any and all arguments that contradict their own?

You're saying their design ideas are bad rather than saying you wish they'd done it differently to cater to your specific needs. That's ridiculous.


The silent majority plays the lab, a lot of people ENJOY the lab and then there's you guys. And you know what? It's fine that you don't like the lab, but holy shit stop pretending like you represent everyone.

You're all acting like big children who complain because they're not getting exactly what they want. Of course they're never going to talk to you about this topic. What would be the point?

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j33bus wrote:

What really intrigues me is why people would think the lab is boring or not fun while the rest of the game is, how is it so different from everything else? The only answer is really traps, Izaro is just another big mechanical boss fight, running through zones is just running through zones. So it's just traps, it's not the lab it's just traps, which is fair, but people complain about the whole thing.

People complain about having to do it 4 times a character, but don't complain about having to level the character and run through acts again. People complain about lag and disconnects, but those aren't lab problems they're game problems overall, the one shot nature makes it slightly worse is all. So really the only thing that is remotely different than the rest of the game is traps.

Yes and because they die to traps while trying to run through them and getting hit by everything, they say lab sucks.

Fun alternative facts in your post with no data backing them up.

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Zalhan2 wrote:

If you want to make meaningful change in your life go some where and protest something that will matter. This is just fun venting about a game with a (bad atm)_ focused Vision.

went to an anti-trump protest.

felt about as useless as trying to get labyrinth changed.

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The_Reporter wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

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The_Reporter wrote:

Both of you last two posters are incorrect in your assumptions. Reread everything, and try again.

Yeah thats easy to say.

The poster before me is incorrect with what they read reread everything and try again.

Thank you for you continued bump support!

Honestly with out the not so silent minority proving that every one loves the lab (except 2 people with hundreds of accounts made years ago with thousands of dollars to super prove they were made up) this would be a boring thread.

I see the love/hate of the labyrinth stemming from the fundamental fact that PoE is an online game fraught with major performance issues. Because of the poor server/client performance it makes the traps of the Lab frustrating at low exile levels as trying to dodge the traps and getting lag killed is bad. Then at some point you get tanky enough to not care that you are getting damaged by the traps and at that point the Lab becomes trivial and boring.

For me and my level 90 exile it is much more boring than Zana dailies as I don't get as much XP as Zana map and I can just ignore the lag inducing traps and WB right through them all. The gold key hunt side zones are very repetitive and hence tedious to go through just to advance to the next zone. Since there is no monster scaling to match the exile level once my exile is a few levels beyond the Lab level then all monsters are just boring annoyances to dispatch to get through to the next Izaro battle. And let's face it, the only reason to run it at all is for the ascendancy points. Some of the enchantments are nice but most are not so dozens or 100s of lab runs just in the hope that the rng will be favorable and I get a useful enchant is not enjoyable either.

I've always wished that the content difficulty of mobs and traps be tuned to match the exile level so that the content challenge would be a better match at any exile level above the base 32/55/68 lab levels.

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raics wrote:

I know it doesn't seem very intuitive but don't you think people have tried doing it differently? It doesn't really work, when running an online game you need to keep players occupied with trivial crap so they don't leave in two days, however you're walking the edge there and if they get too bored they fall off. Unfortunately, there are all kinds of people so some will quit no matter how well you tweak the content, with the lab it seems they managed to hit the main consumer group at least so losses are within expected values.

That's the way it works with online games, this time you fell off and if they continue going in the current direction at this pace maybe it will be me in 3.0, who knows.

Yes, I do! And successfully, at that. GGG, for example, in this one game they once created. I think it was called Path of Exile.

And I've seen countless other good examples.

People are happy to grind, so long as the fundamental gameplay is enjoyable. I feel that that is perhaps the most common appeal of ARPGs, though it is obviously not the only one.

My theory is that that is why "You don't respect my time" has been such a rare criticism of this game, despite the insane grind. Many don't like the exp penalties/nerfs after lvl 90, sure, but their criticism is almost always couched differently than "You don't respect my time." It is significant that I've seen that identical criticism pop up dozens of times in reference to the lab, despite its (ostensible) short time commitment, compared to other aspects of the game.

Now, you may not agree with that criticism, and I can respect that. We all have different tastes and therefore different opinions. But the frequency with which it is raised would (and should) give any game designer pause.

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j33bus wrote:

What really intrigues me is why people would think the lab is boring or not fun while the rest of the game is, how is it so different from everything else? The only answer is really traps, Izaro is just another big mechanical boss fight, running through zones is just running through zones. So it's just traps, it's not the lab it's just traps, which is fair, but people complain about the whole thing.

People complain about having to do it 4 times a character, but don't complain about having to level the character and run through acts again. People complain about lag and disconnects, but those aren't lab problems they're game problems overall, the one shot nature makes it slightly worse is all. So really the only thing that is remotely different than the rest of the game is traps.

I posted an open letter to Chris Wilson last year that you can look at if you are curious. If you don't want to wade through the wall of text skip down to reason #2. Even a year later I still feel that it is perhaps the most significant problem, and FAR worse than traps, because of the way it synergizes with other qualities of the Labyrinth and becomes ever more unpleasant:

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1664975

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gibbousmoon wrote:

I posted an open letter to Chris Wilson last year that you can look at if you are curious. If you don't want to wade through the wall of text skip down to reason #2. Even a year later I still feel that it is perhaps the most significant problem, and FAR worse than traps, because of the way it synergizes with other qualities of the Labyrinth and becomes ever more unpleasant:

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1664975

On most days I would agree the reward is almost completely back loaded, but what is wrong with designing content around that? Just that people feel less rewarded during the run, until they reach the end and achieve the high? I know of a specific streamer that absolutely hates the lab, last time I asked him it was #2 on his list of things to change and he still farmed the lab. Even OP does the lab last time I remembered, so you can complain all you want, but unless you are unwilling to do it at all you kinda don't have a leg to stand on.

I mean if your doing it for the first time on that character you get so many great things in merciless or uber, or well you can.


You get your AC points, you get an enchantment and however many keys you got from making the boss harder or not.

Thats a lot of rewards.

The lab has specific uniques, one of which has grown in popularity quite a bit (the staff) and the uber lab of course has the boots that people seem to like as well.


In terms of addressing the incentive to do the side areas, part of this has to do with information or knowledge sharing. On days that there is a unique locker, people will go out of their way to do it. Its also solved in part by rewarding an additional key to argus kills. In all other circumstances the RNG is just too unfavorable to the rush to the end part.


I guess lets put it this way, if maps had 80% or more of the rewards tied to doing the boss, would you be sure you killed or explored everything or just the boss?




In regards to the game having connection\performance issues, some people have issues for sure and that has got to be frustrating when it occurs. Theres a couple of things a player can do, one is don't spam click doors when advancing areas, I don't know why this bug happens, but if you do in some cases you get kicked and lose the run. Another thing you can do if you are known to have issues is well you know progress quickly, so the chances you run into a connection issue is less.

GGG has no control over your connection to their servers or even really your machine. After they've addressed a number of the issues with crashes in the lab I can say I don't remember the last time I had an issue trying to do the lab.

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gibbousmoon wrote:

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raics wrote:

I know it doesn't seem very intuitive but don't you think people have tried doing it differently?

Yes, I do! And successfully, at that. GGG, for example, in this one game they once created. I think it was called Path of Exile.

Well, GGG essentially does the same thing as every other online game, it gives us trivial things to burn our time on, it does so every expansion and every new league. I don't think there's a single player on the realm that liked every league, some click with you and some don't, and when it doesn't you sit out the league or just grab the rewards and uniques, no matter how much you like the core gameplay.

The only difference is that core content stays with us and the league (mostly) goes away so the damage isn't permanent, and the only difference between forsaken masters and ascendancy is that the former hits a wider group (offends less people). I've seen plenty of players complaining that grinding masters is too tedious and that doing it anew every league is idiotic, mesters weren't a much better expansion that ascendancy, it's just that the antimaster lobby is smaller than the antilab lobby.