SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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Simplesim45 wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

I would assert to you that it makes more sense to give feedback to GGG in the Feedback and Suggestion forum than it does to come into the Feedback and Suggestion forum to bash people giving feedback and suggestions in this forum.

You've given your feedback already. The last 350 pages are just you repeating yourself.

I don't like the Torture Chamber map layout (as well as several other map layouts). They require too much backtracking for the same low and unrewarding result as any other map. What do I do? Convert or sell those maps and move on. It's content in the game that I don't like so I don't play it. I had to do it for my Atlas completion, but you don't see me making a 380 page thread about it.

Even if there was a specific thing I wanted from Torture Chamber maps (or other maps I hate) like divination cards or special item bases, I still wouldn't play that content because I don't like it. Other people would and I'd buy whatever they find (in your case that's lab enchants). If I had to play 3 torture chamber maps per character in order to get a pretty fucking significant reward, I would (and then never play it again because there's a buttload of other fun content for me to do).

That's why I can't agree with everyone complaining about lab. You think you're so special that the game Devs should cater to you and say "fuck everyone else!". The Lab is here. It's a love it or hate it content. A lot of people love it and save for your ascendancy points, it's not a mandatory content. MOVE ON.

MOVE

ON

ffs

no, sorry most of your post is trying to get into my head pretending to know what I think. Based on your false assertions, I know for a fact that you don't have a clue.

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Fruz wrote:

This is so biased, it's like you're not even trying ...

Hit a nerve, did I?

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Fruz wrote:

What if I tell you that :
- new ways of ascending ( that would not be trivial, that would actually be challenging and not "overlevable" too much like the lab, and would also take a minimum amount of time ) would (most likely) require significant dev time, that some people would rather have elsewhere as there is still a lot of work to be done in PoE

Give the ascendancy points as a reward for something already in the game. For example, give the Uber points for killing the Shaper. It would require minimal effort by GGG and frankly would be better than creating something new just for that (based on how "great" the labyrinth is).

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Fruz wrote:

- If new ways are implemented, ( same conditions than up there), I believe ( and I think that I am not the only one ) that appart for a small amount of people that do not actually think that the lab is anythhing difficult, the others are not being of good faith and their dislike of the lab comes from the fact that it isn't actually trivial and faceroll = those people would likely still complain or leave if new ways of ascending as I described would be implemented.

So? I'm sure you'll be around to tell people to stop whining, so no harm there.

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Fruz wrote:

- The problem might not be anything as big as you ( and other people here, obviously ) seem to think it is, and GGG probably does not care if they don't think it's worth spending extra time for this.

Or the problem might be considerably bigger than you think, and GGG may be working on changing it as we speak. Saying "might" is rather irrelevant in this discussion.

You don't really have any strong argument against the proposed change.

What I really want to know is, to which of the 3 categories I mentioned do you belong to?

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Turtledove wrote:

no, sorry most of your post is trying to get into my head pretending to know what I think. Based on your false assertions, I know for a fact that you don't have a clue.

Well you're just babbling now. I wrote a sensible post that contradicts what you think and you can't accept it.

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Simplesim45 wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

no, sorry most of your post is trying to get into my head pretending to know what I think. Based on your false assertions, I know for a fact that you don't have a clue.

Well you're just babbling now. I wrote a sensible post that contradicts what you think and you can't accept it.

How did it contradict what I said? You don't know what I think and your assertions as to what I think are plain wrong.

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Xavathos wrote:

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The_Reporter wrote:

This thread isn't for you. It's for GGG.

Scram, trollish one.

And just who do you think you are telling me what to do? I'll do what I like. I'm not breaking any rules. I'm not leaving until you do. Deal with it, dear fellow.

Funny. In a sense, I AM the Lab. ;)

I'm not a fan of appeals to authority, but you chose to bring it up, so:

Deliberately derailing a thread and trolling in a thread are both absolutely against "the rules."

And you've done both, multiple times, by any reasonable standard. I don't know if that was your goal or not, but quite frankly that is irrelevant.

I haven't reported you, because that's not my style (I prefer to call people out on their bullshit and let them dig their own grave--as you are doing), but do not for a minute think you can hide behind GGG to justify your poor behavior and manners, Xavathos.

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Xavathos wrote:

I will keep responding because you will not stop making me look like crap each post you decide to write...

You do not need me for that. I think you are doing a fine job all by yourself. Please stop.

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Erasculio wrote:

Give the ascendancy points as a reward for something already in the game. For example, give the Uber points for killing the Shaper. It would require minimal effort by GGG and frankly would be better than creating something new just for that (based on how "great" the labyrinth is).

You know, that's a rough terrain there. They need to gate the points behind something and they have four basic choices
1. RNG
2. Targeted farming
3. Encounter
4. Annoyance

1. This one would be something like 'any boss in T8+ maps has a chance to drop the uber lab skill book', with the obvious drawback, it might take a day and it might take a month.

2. It could be implemented as dropping a page from a certain area or monster, combine 200 pages and get the skillbook. The snag is it would take ages for slower players and force you into doing specific content.

The biggest problem with 1 and 2 is probably the lack of any impact whatsoever, they wanted to make obtaining the ascendancy an event of sorts in our character's lifespan, and I personally agree with them on that point.

3. This one is very tricky, might not be in some other game but with the power gap in PoE it's extremely hard to make a single encounter that everyone can do but isn't overly trivial.

4. A very effective method, something like doing the chance recipe takes little time and effort but it's annoying as hell. The biggest advantage of this one is that anyone can do it, regardless of time invested and char strength, the biggest flaw is you can annoy some players past their tolerance threshold.

In the end, they went with 4 for the above noted advantage, adding a smattering of 1 with map trials and 3 with a well designed and accessible encounter. Some players did get annoyed, but it still seems to me that they chose their lesser evil well, considering the alternatives. It's important that you can do the lab as soon as you feel ready for it, every decent build is able to pull it off and yet it isn't completely trivial.

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raics wrote:

You know, that's a rough terrain there. They need to gate the points behind something and they have four basic choices
1. RNG
2. Targeted farming
3. Encounter
4. Annoyance

The thing is, the labyrinth combines the issues of many of those options:

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raics wrote:

2. It could be implemented as dropping a page from a certain area or monster, combine 200 pages and get the skillbook. The snag is it would take ages for slower players and force you into doing specific content.

3. This one is very tricky, might not be in some other game but with the power gap in PoE it's extremely hard to make a single encounter that everyone can do but isn't overly trivial.

4. A very effective method, something like doing the chance recipe takes little time and effort but it's annoying as hell.

The labyrinth forces people into doing specific content (the labyrinth itself), it ends with an encounter (which fits the "hard to make a single encounter that everyone can do but isn't overly trivial" thing), and it's annoying as hell.

In the end, often the solution people find to the labyrinth is the lazy solution - outgrind it, so do the Normal labyrinth when you're in Cruel Sarn, and so on. There was a very funny topic in GD with a guy complaining about the labyrinth, and someone replying "If you can't do the labyrinth your character is bad, meanwhile I did the Normal one on Cruel".

Adding ways to get the ascendancy points by doing encounters already in the game would fix the issue presented in the OP here, without requiring significant effort from GGG, and without removing anything from those who play the labyrinth today because they enjoy it.

The real question is, which encounters? What is already in the game that is comparable in difficulty to doing each of the four labyrinths?

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Erasculio wrote:

The real question is, which encounters? What is already in the game that is comparable in difficulty to doing each of the four labyrinths?

That's the rub, isn't it.

Comparable in difficulty? Probably Malachai. But everyone kills Malachai anyhow in Normal and Cruel, so I kind of agree with goetz and others who insist that getting the points for killing Malachai is a bad idea. My reason for agreeing is that if you get the points for something you already do anyhow, it becomes a "non-event." Pretty sure that's what raics was getting at as well.

Merciless Malachai might be useful somehow, but then again once Act V is out, people are going to have to kill him, to get at the (presumable) Act V rewards. So he runs into the same issue.

Honestly, I think some side content in Act V might be best. Or even the final boss (make him non-trivial to run, as Malachai is now, requiring a lot of running around and fighting lots of monsters--because that's why we love to play this game!). They should throw both the AC points and the enchantments in there, since the uber-Lab is already insanely rewarding (quality gems, MAPS, currency, Lab-only uniques...). And enchantments are also very important. Of course the Lab itself should remain an alternative Ascendancy/enchantment method.

It's really hard for us to speculate on this point until Act V is out, though.

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gibbousmoon wrote:

Honestly, I think some side content in Act V might be best. Or even the final boss (make him non-trivial to run, as Malachai is now, requiring a lot of running around and fighting lots of monsters--because that's why we love to play this game!). They should throw both the AC points and the enchantments in there, since the uber-Lab is already insanely rewarding (quality gems, MAPS, currency, Lab-only uniques...). And enchantments are also very important. Of course the Lab itself should remain an alternative Ascendancy/enchantment method.

Fine by me.

(Although, to be honest, I really don't care about the enchantments, but anyway.)