SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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gibbousmoon wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

You could have done something else if you really wanted to like having a couple of respec points available and unspecing out of vaal pact in that situation.

I've heard this exact thing suggested many times, so I just have to say...

This is a rather retarded workaround.

Respec points and regret orbs were never designed to provide a way to spec into and out of passives which are optimal for certain types of content and not others. You can certainly use them that way, of course. But suggesting that as a workaround just highlights the inherent flaws in the content, imo.

It's an extra retarded suggestion since in my post I gave a much simpler and easier solution, which was to equip more than two life flasks when going through the labyrinth.

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Turtledove wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

I had a high level character with Vaal Pact (no life regen) and wanted to reset to a different ascendancy class. So I tried to run a normal labyrinth. At one point I ran out of life flasks in the middle of a bunch of traps. Very irritating because I had to exit the labyrinth rather than chance dying going forward or back. My view is that; first, I should have carried more life flasks than my normal two. Secondly, labyrinth shouldn't be mandatory content because it is significantly different play style than the rest of PoE and not fun to play for some people.

There are some people that can't read and also can't seem to understand. Trap game play for some people is boring, irritating, tedious, and not fun. Practicing something like this that is boring, irritating, tedious and not fun for someone is stupid in a video game where they don't have to do it to earn a paycheck. Is it fair to blame the design because I don't like playing through the content? Of course, it was a bad design decision on the part of GGG to put main line development mechanisms behind totally different game play from the rest of PoE. The point of this whole 300 page plus thread is that very theme. Now if someone considers this whole 300 page thread to be "shitposting" then the simple solution for that person is to not open the thread! If they want to instead come into this thread and act insulting and upset then they can do that also but, I'd argue that shows their own lack of self control and also a likely lack of intelligence.

What people cant understand is entitlement doesnt make you right. You said it yourself, "some" people dislike trap gameplay, that doesnt mean Lab needs to be catered to your taste. Thats your opinion. Not everyones opinion. Secondly fun is not a requirement for all gameplay. I could care less if you think lab is fun or not. That doesnt justify your opinion in anyway. Would Dark Souls be a game if "FUN" was mandatory. No, because when you are dying 300+ times in a row you are not having fun. The reward is when you finally win and beat that boss, just like in Lab. That sense of accomplishment when you finally overcome the challenge is far superior to any other experience in POE.

It is not fair to blame the design of something based on an opinion. Lab is not fun for you. Lab is not fun for some others. Lab is rewarding for everyone. Lab is a challenge for some. Lab is not a challenge for me. Lab shouldnt be made easier for those who think it is hard just because they cant do it.

Id rather have Izaro be much stronger than he is now to make it even more difficult to complete lab. Trap gameplay is not rpg gameplay is the worst excuse I have ever heard. To think that todays generation has no clue what an RPG is. Just because a game has action aspects in it doesnt excuse all other portions of an entire genre from also being in it. Lab is not fun is a lame excuse. As if every aspect of evey game at all times must be fun. Unfun challenging content is there to create stress and challenge which when overcome feels a lot more rewarding.

They say practice makes perfect, knowledge is power, and to step in others shoes. Try it sometime, maybe you would understand why Lab is the way it is, and why it is never going to change (until Act 5 when an entire difficulty is removed. But the gameplay itself will remain as is, traps included).

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Jgizle wrote:

What people cant understand is entitlement doesnt make you right. You said it yourself, "some" people dislike trap gameplay, that doesnt mean Lab needs to be catered to your taste. Thats your opinion. Not everyones opinion. Secondly fun is not a requirement for all gameplay. I could care less if you think lab is fun or not. That doesnt justify your opinion in anyway. Would Dark Souls be a game if "FUN" was mandatory. No, because when you are dying 300+ times in a row you are not having fun. The reward is when you finally win and beat that boss, just like in Lab. That sense of accomplishment when you finally overcome the challenge is far superior to any other experience in POE.

It is not fair to blame the design of something based on an opinion. Lab is not fun for you. Lab is not fun for some others. Lab is rewarding for everyone. Lab is a challenge for some. Lab is not a challenge for me. Lab shouldnt be made easier for those who think it is hard just because they cant do it.

Id rather have Izaro be much stronger than he is now to make it even more difficult to complete lab. Trap gameplay is not rpg gameplay is the worst excuse I have ever heard. To think that todays generation has no clue what an RPG is. Just because a game has action aspects in it doesnt excuse all other portions of an entire genre from also being in it. Lab is not fun is a lame excuse. As if every aspect of evey game at all times must be fun. Unfun challenging content is there to create stress and challenge which when overcome feels a lot more rewarding.

They say practice makes perfect, knowledge is power, and to step in others shoes. Try it sometime, maybe you would understand why Lab is the way it is, and why it is never going to change (until Act 5 when an entire difficulty is removed. But the gameplay itself will remain as is, traps included).

Your basic assumption is false. There is no claim to entitlement being made. There is simply a very simple fact that some people have the OPINION that trap game play is boring, irritating, tedious and not fun. This is a simple proven FACT because it is an opinion. Not being fun is a most excellent complaint about content added to a video game. GGG will eventually fix this because they are not idiots and understand that it is important that our game be fun.

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Turtledove wrote:

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Jgizle wrote:

What people cant understand is entitlement doesnt make you right. You said it yourself, "some" people dislike trap gameplay, that doesnt mean Lab needs to be catered to your taste. Thats your opinion. Not everyones opinion. Secondly fun is not a requirement for all gameplay. I could care less if you think lab is fun or not. That doesnt justify your opinion in anyway. Would Dark Souls be a game if "FUN" was mandatory. No, because when you are dying 300+ times in a row you are not having fun. The reward is when you finally win and beat that boss, just like in Lab. That sense of accomplishment when you finally overcome the challenge is far superior to any other experience in POE.

It is not fair to blame the design of something based on an opinion. Lab is not fun for you. Lab is not fun for some others. Lab is rewarding for everyone. Lab is a challenge for some. Lab is not a challenge for me. Lab shouldnt be made easier for those who think it is hard just because they cant do it.

Id rather have Izaro be much stronger than he is now to make it even more difficult to complete lab. Trap gameplay is not rpg gameplay is the worst excuse I have ever heard. To think that todays generation has no clue what an RPG is. Just because a game has action aspects in it doesnt excuse all other portions of an entire genre from also being in it. Lab is not fun is a lame excuse. As if every aspect of evey game at all times must be fun. Unfun challenging content is there to create stress and challenge which when overcome feels a lot more rewarding.

They say practice makes perfect, knowledge is power, and to step in others shoes. Try it sometime, maybe you would understand why Lab is the way it is, and why it is never going to change (until Act 5 when an entire difficulty is removed. But the gameplay itself will remain as is, traps included).

Your basic assumption is false. There is no claim to entitlement being made. There is simply a very simple fact that some people have the OPINION that trap game play is boring, irritating, tedious and not fun. This is a simple proven FACT because it is an opinion. Not being fun is a most excellent complaint about content added to a video game. GGG will eventually fix this because they are not idiots and understand that it is important that our game be fun.

Your claim is pure entitlement.

"I hate traps so traps must be removed".

"I dont have fun in lab therefore no one has fun in lab and it must be changed".

"I dont make new characters because I have to do lab, and i dont like lab. Other people also dont make new characters because they dislike lab as well" Therefore lab is a problem that needs fixing".

"I find trap gameplay boring ect ect w/e no one cares, therefore traps must be removed to make me enjoy lab more. My opinion matters more than everyone else. I have made it quite clear that lab haters are a minority but we deserve change to please us".

"I dont play poe because of lab. Therefore you should fix lab to bring me back. Unless you dont care, which i know no one does".

Everything you say is pure selfishness and entitlement based. You never stop to consider that the reason lab is not changing is because the majority have a completely different opinion than you do. Good job making a thread with more than 600 supporters. GGG has had over 6m people download and play POE. More than 70k people play this game every single day. You think any one cares than sub 700 people dislike lab. Nope.

Your thread puts words in other peoples mouths claiming that every single person you are using as a supporter of lab change dislike lab as a whole. My poll makes it quite clear people dont dislike lab, they dislike aspects of it. Most people want 1 change made. You claim every supporter supports every single change you want
Which is a blatant lie and misuse of data and statistics to support your opinion that lab needs any fixing at all.

Lab is perfect as is. Lab is not changing. So guess you wont be playing poe for a while till you grow up and realise what good gameplay actually is.

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Jgizle wrote:

Lab is perfect as is. Lab is not changing. So guess you wont be playing poe for a while till you grow up and realise what good gameplay actually is.

Oh, stop being so entitled. That's just your opinion, not everyone shares it.

(See? I can use the exact same reasoning you use against you.)

And anyhow, we all know why you really don't want the lab to be fixed and fun for everyone, and those motives are dirty to say the least, and decidedly not in GGG's best interests.

"The majority of people hate the lab"
Sheesh.
"The majority of people are fine with the lab"
Pfft.

You want the truth?
0% of you have any real statistics on the lab.

"Oh but, but, I counted the forum posts! And most of them were negatively skewed!"

Ok, in a thread about the lab being bad, you found a lot of posts about the lab being bad. Say it ain't so! Logic would suggest that the people who are ok with the content are playing the game, and not complaining here about it one way or the other.

None of you, not a damn one, can speak as to what the majority of players like or don't like. You don't have the numbers, or even a reliable way to get those numbers. So stop using it as an argument. It's just dumb.

The Lab is utter garbage. It's the one game feature of PoE that causes me to quit. I have friends who won't even run the lab just to avoid the hatred they have for it because it enrages them.

Tonight, I was running Merc Lab with my 74 Bleeding Split build (3.2k health 12k+ evasion). No problem with Izauro until 3rd and final trial (20+ mins later). Somehow got slowed, he killed me in 10 seconds. First death of this char since a silly mistake in normal. Wow. That sure was fun. Now I gotta throw the 20 wasted minutes away (plus exp loss from death) and there's no way in hell I'm re-running it tonight. I'll wait a few more levels. But I ****ing hate it. Every single time. Every way. I NEVER stop to open chests. I NEVER go after the silver keys or anything else. I HATE ALL OF IT. The lab infuriates me. Die and start over. What a horrible design. Dodging stupid traps. Horrible design. But gotta do it for the points, right? Worst game mechanic I've ever, EVER seen in an ARPG. I just do it to be done with it and screw the enchantments - I don't care about ANYTHING the lab has to offer except the ascendancy points and I will never, EVER, EVER do the uber lab. Merc is as far as I'll go and I just usually wait until ~80 or so to do that just so I can faceroll it.

So to recap, I don't even do normal lab until I'm in Merc, and I do cruel when I finish merc, and I usually do merc when I'm close to 80. PoE has so many 1-shot death/kill mechanics, it's just not worth the "challenge". Ever.

Getting pissed just thinking about it as I write this. As so many other players do/have. Ascendancy points have to got to be awarded through an alternative system from the lab.

Oh, and I don't personally know a single player who likes the lab. At all. And I've been playing since BETA. Actually, the players I know downright hate it. Given there's been HUNDREDS (if not thousands) of posts about the lab and how people hate it (probably more than any other feature of the game) it's undeniable something must be changed.