SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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Regulator wrote:

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JinglyGoo wrote:

Been away from poe a week and I see this thread still going strong. Having looked through last few pages it's all just recycled rubbish. I do find it extremely amusing how OP labels anyone who's in the pro lab camp "white Knights who haven't made any sensible points". Just a word of advice OP no-one will take you seriously if you can't even accept a basic point of view that contradicts yours or even consider that you may be wrong on some level. At the very least in part of your argument.

Anyways I love the way GGG bring new and exciting content every expansion including ascendancy. Keeps the game fresh and exciting to come back to every league. I haven't enjoyed all expansions equally and that's natural that most people dislike parts of the game from time to time.

To give you an example I absolutely hated and still hate the Masters expansion and addition of masters to the game. Apart from Zana the masters have ruined a lot item finding fun for me and a lot of other players. But do you see me on the forums creating a 30 page threads because I don't like a specific part of the game? No, because I can accept the fact that plenty of others do and this is exactly the same case with the current labyrinth discussion. Is it really that hard for you to invest less than 1 hour per character to just get your ascendancy points and save all this drama. Does the game have to be tailored 100% to your liking because that sounds a lot like entitlement to something none of us have any rights to, paying or F2P players.

My 2 cents on the matter and I guess I will now have to sit in the corner with all the "white Knights" since I don't fully support your suggestion :( .

Dear exile i have never dismissed their opinions just for the sake of dismissing them i always try to give a reasoning. I respect the fact that they like the labyrinth and im trully happy they find a reason to run it, hell even my suggestions (not all in the OP) give a lot more incentive to run the labyrinth again and again. Thats becacuse those suggestion are true in the spirit of PoE and the content becomes absolutely optional but very rewarding. Exactly as Atziri and Uber are atm. My suggestions in short : The enchants are less random more powerfull and skill defining (no more 25%increased x skill dmg for example). You can affect the result with socket colours. Treasure chests offer more rewards(quantity). Izaro drops new semi-powerful but skill defining (like the enchants) labyrinth only uniques. Waypoints AFTER each izaro fight, if you die or quit, that instance of the labyrinth is reseted but if you choose to continue the same run you begin from the last izaro room you killed him. Finally the AC points are removed from the lab and put as rewards to something else that GGG finds suitable.

Now tell me again does this sound as an improvement or no? Does it go in line with previous expansions or no? Does it make labyrinth optional or no? Does it make it more rewarding or no? Does it allow everyone who dislikes that playstyle have fun or no? Does it remove anything from those who like the labyrinth or no?

Give your answers here or to yourself only i do not care. Reasoning behind every answer is what makes you a "white knight" or a "hater"

What i hate with all my heart is the illogical "arguments" some tried to make in the past. Those people made fool of themselves and stopped harrassing this and similar threads, cause the truth is they never had any argument to begin with. The blind defending of something that is clearly not well received by many is what is called white knightism. The defending of the content just for the shake of defending it, without any valid logic/arguments just because... See for yourself the tactics white knights are using in this and similar threads and decide if you actually belong with them. Being a white knight means you defend something out of pure emotion, no logic involved. It a choice for some a way of life for others. And then there are those who are programmed to do so, the known to all WK-bots.

It has nothing to do with disaggreing in this debate, i respect that, i dont respect assholes coming and degrading other people's opinions/posts/ideas/suggestions just because they disaggree with them.

I hope i made clear what those people represent, and believe me if you read half their posts regarding the matter you will realise what kind of people are they.

Oh, almost forgot, the fact that this thread as well as this, this, this, this and this exist means that people truly take seriously what people are saying. My stance to dismiss anything that has no valid logic behind it should not scare you or anyone with solid arguments against the suggestion.

But dont come and tell me its only one hour, or get better, or you want freebies, or you suck, or whatever WK are saying these days. When you read and comprehend the OP (or the rest of the post) you will realise some things.

To rebuttal what it seems like a comparison you made to the lab and the masters. The masters are optional am i right? If you dont do the master what are you losing? Fun (if you can find it there) and item customization. Did i miss anything? If i did please mention it. Now lets see what are you losing if you refuse to do the labyrinth (which only fools still consider it optional). Fun (if you can find it there), item customization (enchants), treasure chests and Ascendancy Class points.
Can you spot the difference there mate? If you cant its AC points, and if you had really understood the OP you wouldnt make that comparison to begin with. So in both you might lose the fun they offer plus item customization, and if you refuse to do the lab you lose as extra the treasure chest and something that is so flavourful and build definings, something so personal and important to character optimization that is mind-numbing anyone supports it being gated behing that atrocity.

I do not support absolutes or extremes, im trying to be as just and fair as possible, not trying to make your time worse or to steal your fun, i only want for people who are not into that kind of playstyle to be able to have some fun with the new content. Its not about entitlement or lazyness its pure and honest feedback. A content that i did many times and still have that opinion. A content labeled as new and refreshing while its a clone of ancient games just with better graphics. A content that ive done so many times when i was 10 years old, more than 15years ago.

I respect that some people find this content enjoyable (say a lot about 80' and 90' era games too), can those though respect that a big chunk of the playerbase does not? Whatever the answer to that is the OP offers a suggestion to help everyone have the fun they DESERVE from their hobby.

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Langhun wrote:

Anyone else ever played Lineage II? :D

OP basicaly saying I won't be playing labyrinth ever again just give me the damn points. :) I can understand this frustration. Labyrinth has many issues but running away doesn't solve the problem. It definitely has something to offer as well.

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JinglyGoo wrote:

Been away from poe a week and I see this thread still going strong. Having looked through last few pages it's all just recycled rubbish. I do find it extremely amusing how OP labels anyone who's in the pro lab camp "white Knights who haven't made any sensible points". Just a word of advice OP no-one will take you seriously if you can't even accept a basic point of view that contradicts yours or even consider that you may be wrong on some level. At the very least in part of your argument.

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JinglyGoo wrote:

To give you an example I absolutely hated and still hate the Masters expansion and addition of masters to the game. Apart from Zana the masters have ruined a lot item finding fun for me and a lot of other players. But do you see me on the forums creating a 30 page threads because I don't like a specific part of the game? No, because I can accept the fact that plenty of others do and this is exactly the same case with the current labyrinth discussion. Is it really that hard for you to invest less than 1 hour per character to just get your ascendancy points and save all this drama. Does the game have to be tailored 100% to your liking because that sounds a lot like entitlement to something none of us have any rights to, paying or F2P players.

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UnderOmerta wrote:

Just have an option for people who can't stand the lab to also gain ascendancy points in another method. None of that means it has to be "free."

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NeroNoah wrote:

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UnderOmerta wrote:

Just have an option for people who can't stand the lab to also gain ascendancy points in another method. None of that means it has to be "free."

It pretty much gets reduced to the oportunity cost imposed to those who wouldn't run the labyrinth. If you say "Kill Malachai for Ascendancy points", I would oppose you. It's almost free.

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Turtledove wrote:

I would rather PAY $10.00 for ascendancy points than run the boring tedious frustrating and not fun labyrinth. I would happily pay a fee to get ascendancy points so that I could continue to play the game I love. I would be happy to pay to not have to spend a horrible half hour of my game playing time in the labyrinth. Actually it could easily take longer than that if I died and had to start all over. I'm not suggesting this is a good idea, I'm just suggesting that to make the game playable again for me and others that share my "aversion" to the labyrinth, the ascendancy points rewards need to be moved elsewhere.

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NeroNoah wrote:

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UnderOmerta wrote:

Just have an option for people who can't stand the lab to also gain ascendancy points in another method. None of that means it has to be "free."

It pretty much gets reduced to the oportunity cost imposed to those who wouldn't run the labyrinth. If you say "Kill Malachai for Ascendancy points", I would oppose you. It's almost free.

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Regulator wrote:

Im seriously starting to believe that some of the white knights are getting paid to spread bullshit.

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It's not a good thing to gate core, character-defining rewards behind an experience that a lot of players don't enjoy.

I get that some really like Lab and hopefully they get the chance to continue doing that. As for me, I'd be happy to have another option than Lab for getting Ascendancy passives.