SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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Turtledove wrote:

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Xtorma wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

I wonder if there's 248 threads in this forum indicating that this master leveling issue is a problem? Actually, I suspect it has been mentioned in these labyrinth threads more than anywhere else, LOL!

What does that have to do with anything? If you want the game changed for one small group of players, then you should be all for it to be changed for every small group who wants something.

Red maps should be easy to sustain.
Trade should be automated.
One play through only to maps.
1 hit kills eliminated.
Map bosses re-tuned to be easier.
No re-leveling masters.
More coins.
Perandus outside of maps.
MTX cheaper.

There you go. Enough crusades to keep you busy into the next century. As Dialla says, tears are infinite, so all you need to do is start spamming the forums.

Mentioning other problems that are bothering pro-lab people is apparently done to belittle the labyrinth problem and the people that think the labyrinth/ascendancy points problem needs to be fixed. What they always seem to fail to realize is that just because they don't like something and put up with it, it doesn't mean that labyrinth is not a problem that has had more impact on GGG success. All those problems you mention (most of which I personally don't consider problems) have far fewer threads dedicated to them. The large number of threads regarding labyrinth is anecdotal evidence that labyrinth is a bigger problem and an issue with more impact to GGG than those other problems mentioned. A problem that, I believe, GGG will eventually address.

The issue of one-hit kills is pretty much the only legitimate issue Xtorma brings up, imo, and even that one is debateable.

Also, not to put too fine a point on it, but the existence of other problems in the game is not relevant, unless Xtorma is arguing that all problems in the game should be ignored if they are only complained about by a "small minority" of people.

Fortunately for its players (and its own business viability), GGG realizes how foolish that position is.

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gibbousmoon wrote:

Also, not to put too fine a point on it, but the existence of other problems in the game is not relevant, unless Xtorma is arguing that all problems in the game should be ignored if they are only complained about by a "small minority" of people.

Fortunately for its players (and its own business viability), GGG realizes how foolish that position is.

realizes that? or maybe they consciously ignore your little cult? because bending to EVERY little group out there is a correct way of making business.

appealing to everyone is impossible and it is sometimes better to narrow the target market of a product to better serve the remaining group better. your group seem to be outside this target group. for you it is an end of the world. understandably. but do others really care?

Cult, crusade, 5 people circlejerking. How could you possibly come up with a valid counterargument if you can't decide what it is you are fighting against? I call the Remove Mario Thread, RMT for short or LSD; Less Sucky Derailment of gameplay.

I like the lab, and I understand people not liking it. Removing ascendancy points from it wouldn't change anything for me anyway.

I'm ok with ascendancy points being in an other place, I don't see any issues, people who like the lab will still do it while people who doesn't like it will skip it. Everyone will be happy.

Thing is lot of people I know stopped because of the lab, they told they don't like being forced to do something they dislike to get the things they like, and having them back would be good for my social interaction.

And if they don't change the lab, I will still continue to play but without my old friends, as I said it doesn't change anything for me, on the gameplay.

Hc ex : chaos ratio is 1 : 20 and dropping, aren't you lab lovers gonna come and farm some easy exalts on hc essence? What's holding you back? The labyrinth?lel

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Pyrokar wrote:

Hc ex : chaos ratio is 1 : 20 and dropping, aren't you lab lovers gonna come and farm some easy exalts on hc essence? What's holding you back? The labyrinth?lel

I assume it's hardcore. Honestly I'm always a standard player and my current deaths in the Lab this league 0, my current deaths in literally all of the rest of the game 26. So even Hillock caused me more deaths then the lab. I actually died in a Trial... to the mobs, not the traps. And I think on my Standard Char I died on Izaro, so technically I had one death to the lab in this patch, but it was not in the league and Izaro is arguably not that much different to any other boss.

Also what should I do with HC Exalts? I could bring them to Standard... but I don't even know how many exalts I already own in Standard, because once my Tabs go there I don't look that often at them. My Tabs with items in them are named different so I know where to look for items to test things but currency is just somewhere in there.

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sidtherat wrote:

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gibbousmoon wrote:

Also, not to put too fine a point on it, but the existence of other problems in the game is not relevant, unless Xtorma is arguing that all problems in the game should be ignored if they are only complained about by a "small minority" of people.

Fortunately for its players (and its own business viability), GGG realizes how foolish that position is.

realizes that? or maybe they consciously ignore your little cult? because bending to EVERY little group out there is a correct way of making business.

appealing to everyone is impossible and it is sometimes better to narrow the target market of a product to better serve the remaining group better. your group seem to be outside this target group. for you it is an end of the world. understandably. but do others really care?

GGG has made MANY (in the order of hundreds, if not thousands) of fixes to this game which were only complained about by a small number of people, so I'm not sure what your point is.

Frankly, I think it is more likely that you simply missed mine.

Tweaking drop rates of item X is a small fix. Re-working lab is not.

A lot of proposed "solutions" either require a lot of work, would invalidate the Ascendancy expansion or otherwise make the Lab obsolete / go against GGG wanted design. People that complain "Lab is crap" are basically asking to roll back an expansion, which is not gonna happen.

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gibbousmoon wrote:

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sidtherat wrote:

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gibbousmoon wrote:

Also, not to put too fine a point on it, but the existence of other problems in the game is not relevant, unless Xtorma is arguing that all problems in the game should be ignored if they are only complained about by a "small minority" of people.

Fortunately for its players (and its own business viability), GGG realizes how foolish that position is.

realizes that? or maybe they consciously ignore your little cult? because bending to EVERY little group out there is a correct way of making business.

appealing to everyone is impossible and it is sometimes better to narrow the target market of a product to better serve the remaining group better. your group seem to be outside this target group. for you it is an end of the world. understandably. but do others really care?

GGG has made MANY (in the order of hundreds, if not thousands) of fixes to this game which were only complained about by a small number of people, so I'm not sure what your point is.

Frankly, I think it is more likely that you simply missed mine.

It is quite possible the cost to benefit ratio of adjusting or full out changing the lab is not attractive at this point. It's like asking a company to change the suspension system on their vehicle and it would sell slightly more units per year, but most people still buy the car now, so a rework of the engineering plans , the logistics of procuring new materials, reprogramming the factory robots etc... would only cost money with not enough return.

Perhaps they are proud of the lab in it's current form, and wish to preserve their integrity and the integrity of the artists and engineers who designed and created it.

Perhaps they are even working on a change , but don't want to make a statement until it is finished and tested.

I mean , you can look at the steam numbers and see that it is not having a huge effect. doesn't mean they won't change it, but it does lend evidence to the fact that it is not impacting profit to the extant that people have been trying to state as fact in these threads. You will more than likely get your easy mode eventually, but as of right now, it doesn't look to be a priority.

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Xtorma wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

Mentioning other problems that are bothering pro-lab people is apparently done to belittle the labyrinth problem and the people that think the labyrinth/ascendancy points problem needs to be fixed. What they always seem to fail to realize is that just because they don't like something and put up with it, it doesn't mean that labyrinth is not a problem that has had more impact on GGG success. All those problems you mention (most of which I personally don't consider problems) have far fewer threads dedicated to them. The large number of threads regarding labyrinth is anecdotal evidence that labyrinth is a bigger problem and an issue with more impact to GGG than those other problems mentioned. A problem that, I believe, GGG will eventually address.

You have no idea how much impact the lab has on the companies success. You are just saying it, like you think if you repeat it enough GGG will somehow disregard all their numbers to the contrary and suddenly believe it's true. If it was having any kind significant discernable impact on their revenue, it would have been addressed by now.

I would just say release the points , so we can have significant feedback again, but it won't help, because the salty crusaders will simply find another reason to make threats and demands of the company.

I am happy you don't think any of the issues I mentioned are problems, but there are other small minorities, who beg to differ, they are just like you, only a little less salty.

There is strong anecdotal evidence that the labyrinth problem is much bigger than the other problems. That anecdotal evidence is the number of threads and the number of posts about it in this Feedback and Suggestions forum. True it doesn't prove it beyond any doubt but saying that there is "no idea" is inaccurate, I believe. GGG does not likely have definitive numbers either. They know people run the labyrinth to get the points. They don't know from that fact that they like or dislike it. They can know it by reviewing the Feedback and Suggestions forum though.

If it's had a discernible impact on revenue it may not have been addressed by now. Not coming out with new content would have a big impact on revenue. New major development takes a year or more in the development pipeline. It is very disruptive to that process to drop or put new content underdevelopment on hold. If the fix requires a full development cycle then getting the labyrinth/ascendancy fix out could take a year, depending how they decide to fix it.

If other people beg to differ then fine, I'm sure they would appreciate your support for their cause, in other threads here in the Feedback and Suggestions forum. Or you can instead go into their threads and argue that their problems are insignificant because there are other problems being complained about in other threads? It's up to you.