SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

Really funny fact, about 4/5 after the page 100, are posts from white knights. Why cant you let this die? Isnt a whole new expansion out there to enjoy? Still playing the forum game? Nothing better to do? A whole new expansion with lots of thingies to do and yet you choose to participate on this thread.

Since you wont stop, at least try to stop shitposting or antagonize and hate on other people. Try to help for a change, the issues are all presented on the opening post, by not understanding or accepting them you cant be helpful or/and constructive. And thus your comments are irrelevant.

Its fine you are having fun with it well done nobody is pestering you or saying you shouldnt and nobody is trying to get this content out of the game. But respect and understand that our issues are as legit as your reasoning for liking the content. Not only this but 9/10 of our suggestions keep things exactly the same. LITERALLY NO CHANGE TO YOUR PLAYSTYLE, BUT HUGE CHANGE TO OURS.

Unless you can get the grasp of the above you will always sound like irrelevant and willingly ignorant fools. Tread accordingly gentlemen.

Regards.

Inundated with cockroaches, I am

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1609216 - labyrinth rework ideas/suggestions
"
Regulator wrote:
Its fine you are having fun with it well done nobody is pestering you or saying you shouldnt and nobody is trying to get this content out of the game. But respect and understand that our issues are as legit as your reasoning for liking the content. Not only this but 9/10 of our suggestions keep things exactly the same. LITERALLY NO CHANGE TO YOUR PLAYSTYLE, BUT HUGE CHANGE TO OURS.


And that's plain wrong. You people want the Labyrinth out, or at least, less content of it.

No thanks.

I say to you the same thing: respect the people who enjoy it and don't call them "white knights" and nonsense like that.
The Lord's Labyrinth awaits you.
Choose wisely, strike quickly.
Thrust completely.
And may you find the ending that you deserve.
Last edited by MekaDragon#4802 on Sep 12, 2016, 8:53:08 AM
This is the point where I get annoyed with people...

I'm perfectly fine staying out of most conversations, just voicing my opinion once, and letting it stand for any who choose to read and understand. But then you have people come along saying things that ignore so much reason and effort put forth by all involved, perhaps responding only to the extremes, as if they represent all of the thoughts on a matter.

So, I respond here only to the extremists on both sides:
People who don't like the labyrinth should not be told to stop playing the game or -- from their viewpoint -- suffer through hours of not fun content (for some, it is unplayable for technical reasons as well, despite otherwise tolerating it).

In addition, People who don't like the labyrinth are not all advocating removal of the labyrinth! There are reasonable suggestions that simply provide an alternative method of obtaining Ascendancy points, while keeping the labyrinth in tact, or even including part of the labyrinth in the new method. I would go so far as to tell those who do advocate removal of the labyrinth to stop making that suggestion just to exagerate/emphasize your dislike of the content because it just gives fuel to these extreme characterizations of those who simply want changes made or added.

Last edited by Zaludoz#6325 on Sep 12, 2016, 8:58:01 AM
"
Zaludoz wrote:
So, I respond here only to the extremists on both sides:
People who don't like the labyrinth should not be told to stop playing the game or -- from their viewpoint -- suffer through hours of not fun content (for some, it is unplayable for technical reasons as well, despite otherwise tolerating it).


If someone has technical problems in a game and that person wants something removed because of that... seriously, does it even have any sense??

It's their problem, not game's.

"
Zaludoz wrote:
In addition, People who don't like the labyrinth are not all advocating removal of the labyrinth! There are reasonable suggestions that simply provide an alternative method of obtaining Ascendancy points, while keeping the labyrinth in tact, or even including part of the labyrinth in the new method. I would go so far as to tell those who do advocate removal of the labyrinth to stop making that suggestion just to exagerate your dislike of the content because it just gives fuel to these extreme characterizations of those who simply want changes made or added.


Obtaining the ascendancy points from somewhere that isn't the labyrinth just removes lots of potential from the labyrinth itself. It would break gameplay and lore, making the Ascendancy expansion just wrong.

That's the catch with ascendancy points. "You want them, right? Come get them. Proof yourself worthy and claim them when you're ready."
The Lord's Labyrinth awaits you.
Choose wisely, strike quickly.
Thrust completely.
And may you find the ending that you deserve.
"
MekaDragon wrote:
"
Regulator wrote:
Its fine you are having fun with it well done nobody is pestering you or saying you shouldnt and nobody is trying to get this content out of the game. But respect and understand that our issues are as legit as your reasoning for liking the content. Not only this but 9/10 of our suggestions keep things exactly the same. LITERALLY NO CHANGE TO YOUR PLAYSTYLE, BUT HUGE CHANGE TO OURS.


And that's plain wrong. You people want the Labyrinth out, or at least, less content of it.

No thanks.

I say to you the same thing: respect the people who enjoy it and don't call them "white knights" and nonsense like that.


Are you determined to make yourself look bad or what? Have you even read what this thread is about?

Alternative Ascension Methods
Every suggestion made (and i could find) in the forums that is in line with the opening post will be mentioned a analyzed a bit here. Suggestions will be in bold, credits and analysis below the suggestion.

I) Every character ascents at specific levels. For example 30-50-70 or 40-60-80 which are the levels anyway most people try the labs in each difficulty. Numbers ofcourse can be changed as GGG sees fit . *Since the endgame lab was introduced another way could be used : at level 20 gain 1 ascendancy point, every 10lvls after that you get another one, up to a total of 8 at level 90
-Regulator, *Prebornfetus

This is the only suggestion that goes 100% in line with every other expansion GGG ever realeased. No gating, free for everyone (like jewel system in the tree) and gratuitous power creeping. Of course making it completely free means that ascension will be just a super OP upgrade to your character without having to do anything for it (like leveling but way more powerful) and will certainly make ascencion feel less rewarding.

II) AC points are also (meaning labyrinth as it is still awards them) awarded from a standalone fight with Izaro. We fight him in 3* stages as it is now but without having to run the labyrinth and the trials (traps, golden doors, puzzles etc) before hand. He awards nothing but AC points, he drops no loot, there is no enchant option and no treasure chests/keys. You cannot party there (only solo). No way to cheese it. *The stages can be increased to make the whole fight harder
-Regulator, *Turtledove

In that way AC are still gated but now behind the usual playstyle and not that of arcade games. It keeps the lore and the harder part of the whole labyrinth experience intact.

III) AC points are also are rewarded after killing Malachai in each difficulty. Labyrinth remains the same. *Since the endgame lab was introduced the whole process could be : 2 points each after dominus kill and 2 points after completing merciless difficulty.
-Regulator, *Prebornfetus

Upsides of this suggestion include: Malachai now has a reward linked to him, gated behind the usual playstyle, its harder to get. Downside : Lore

IV) Combine II and III. You must kill malachai to gain access to a standalone Izaro fight. Izaro rewards only AC points (no drops, no enchants, nothing at all), has 3 stages, and he is harder too kill/buffed. No party allowed inside Izaro fight. Labyrinth remains as it is now too
-EnjoyTheJourney, Pyrokar, Perq, Turtledove

Honestly the most balanced and win-win suggestion, with absolutely no downside but with many upsides. Malachai has a reward linked to him and Merciless one has a purpose. Lore stays almost 100% intact. Still gated but behind normal PoE (hack and slash/arpg) playstyle (no arcade game silliness). Its way harder to get now providing a challenge.

V) Ascendancy Points could also (labyrinth stays as is) be bought from Cadiro with coins 1k normal - 2k cruel - 4k merciless
-AllanonTB

AC points become tradable and thus easier to get, soft gate behind currency/coin farming. Lore issues. Cadiro is going away so no coins after this league. Generally not a very well though idea.

VI) New currency : Ascendancy Orb (i dont remember details on this one so ill suggest), rarity same as divines can drop only in 70+ maps, izaro has 100% chance to drop 1 (max) in mercilless only. It can work as 1 ascendancy point respec too. Labyrinthh stays as it is now.
-Unknown

Lore and labyrinth upsides stay intact. You can have early access to AC points or wait until 70+ maps and be lucky enought to get Ascendancy Orbs to drop. It gives another reward to lab runners that they can trade afterwards for more profit. Downsides include : the current labyrinth downsides, gating behind rng + arcade playstyle. A solid suggestion too.

VII) Trials by combat. Labyrinth remains as it is now (with all the rewards). A new area is created. The new area might resemble fighting pits/gladiatorial arenas/ but can be anything really, from random wilderness, to a dungeon, to "cinematic" high society illegal fighting setting (like the race event descent champion crowd watching). Opponents would be exiles/warbands kind of enemies from the current pool or even better from a new extended one. There would be 3 stages of Izaro fight like now, before each stage you have to win in a battle versus those opponents. Each fight gets progressively more difficult than the previous, for examble in the first stage there might be 10exiles that not only fight against you but against each other, the second stage the exiles become warband members and they team up against you etc.
-EnjoyTheJourney

A refreshing and fun alternative. It fits the Emperor Izaro theme (loosely based on roman emperors and cretan king Minos) and not only keeps current lore intact but enhances it. Absolutely no downside since even the playstyle resembles that of the rest of the game (ARPG/hack&slash). A very entertaining concept indeed that seems to adress almost every issue.

VIII)Account wide one time labyrinth completion after which other character gets ascendancy points as they complete entire acts.
-johnce6

A wonderful idea. Remove the tedious ordeal once and for all. Very similar to number I and III. Upsides: Simple, one time trouble, feels natural to ascend after you chance difficulty levels. Downsides : You still have to run the lab and the trials at least once.

IX)A prophecy chain - The Enlightened I, II, III. Completing the chain grants you 2 ascendancy points. Completing it more than four times for the 8 total ascendancy points grants you ascendancy respec points. Can only be activated after you hit lvl 75 and are in merciless. Common prophecy. You are not required to run the trials. Labyrinth also remains as it currently is with all its rewards.
The Enlightened Chain


- Izaro's Dream is exactly like the first stage of engame's labyrinth Izaro fight. When you are teleported you are sent to the plaza before his room. Area level 75. The prophecy is fullfilled when you kill Izaro.



-Izaro's Vision is exactly like the second stage of the endgame's labyrinth Izaro fight. When you are teleported you are sent to the plaza before his room. Area level 75. The prophecy is fullfilled when you kill Izaro.



-Izaro's Nightmare is exactly like the third and final stage of the endgame's labyrinth Izaro fight. When you are teleported you are sent to the plaza before his room. Area level 75. The prophecy is fullfilled when you kill Izaro.

Mechanics of the fights carry on to the second and third stage of the prophecy chain. Izaro doesnt Drop anything. Mechanics are not the same for all every day, they are completely random. Obviously you cant party. Every part of the prophecy chain costs 2 silver coins to seal it.

-Regulator

A similar idea to other suggestions but implemented in a different way that utilizes the new prophecy system that will probably stay in the game after the leagues. It adresses quite a few of the problems, and since the lab remains as it is, its not forced upon others. Its considerably harder to get the first 6points when compared to a normal/cruel/merci average lab and only slightly easier compared to the endgame lab because you dont to the trials. Ofcourse mechanics and requirements can change as GGG sees fit.

X)Ascendancy Divination Card drops are added to the game. The drop chance is global, but it is substantially higher in yellow maps and inside the labyrinth in each difficulty. Stack size is up to GGG. Each complete set grants 1 ascendancy point. Ofcourse the labyrinth remains as it is.
-Prebornfetus

A very solid and flavourful suggestion. It doesnt messes with lab runners and on top of that it also helps/incentivizes them even more cause there is a new tradeable item to farm. Since every lab in every difficulty has a higher chance to drop them, even low level characters or new players can join the hunt and farm them. I have to say that if this together with the ascendancy orb (VI) were to be implemented most people looking for getting a subclass only would be most happy.


XI) A special ascend event occurs each day. Completion of this would give 1 point. Possible events could be:
A. Kill 15 map bosses.
B. Sell 15 items with 6 sockets or five 5link item.
C. Gain a level.
Or anything else seriously, the possibilities are countless.
Labyrinth remains the same.

-Prebornfetus

What can i say, everything to make the ascencion medium better and more enjoyable is a step in the right direction, and this suggestions is exactly that. The events could even breath some life in the leagues and incentivize group play/player interaction. If we take that a step further by introducing high level master-like missions GGG implements without knowing some form of endgame activity too.

XII) A combination of the above

Number four with number six could make for an awesome new experience for everyone for example. Give an extra incentive for lab runners (since merci izaro will drop Ascendancy Orbs for them to sell afterwards) and allow those who dislike current labyrinth playstyle to have a fun. Other combinations could work too. For example some of the suggestions share mechanics/ideas already but they are unique enough to stand on their own.


-Ill try to update this section if any new suggestion catches my eye. Also if you know who made suggestion VI please link me the thread it was made.


Labyrinth Rework Ideas



1) The labyrinth (izaro, layout, traps, reward room) remains the same. The traps in the labyrinth and the trials can be turned off/be deactivated. How would that work : every trap room has a puzzle that leads to a crank, solving the puzzle would allow you to use the crank and thus deactivate the traps in the room.
-Regulator, Casual_Ascent

What does this achieve? Removal of the arcade playstyle the current traps impose. Slower but more immersing playstyle closer to the RPG style. Since it wont change anything in the way traps work and the layout of the labyrinth, daily lab runners can still benefit from running the lab as fast as they do now, without taking into account the puzzle, so enchants farming and leaderboards racing remains the same. It literally has zero downside if implemented like this. Arcade playstyle for those who love the current trap system, RPG playstyle for those who dislike the arcade one. Another win-win solution. Izaro fights all remain the same. The reward room remains the same. No discrepancy between the two playstyle lovers, both sides get what they want in their preffered playstyle.

2) Remove the traps completely, make the labyrinth bigger with more mandatory puzzles/gold doors, keep the ascendancy points there.
-gibbousmoon

A solid suggestion that perfectly adressess paragraphs 3 and 5, while keeping lore almost intact. In addition it promotes no content skipping. The downside : many people like the arcade playstyle the traps offer and would definately be annoyed by a change like that. Furthermore if something like that was implemented and the labyrinth did indeed get bigger with more mandatory puzzles/gold doors, it would make enchantment system a million times more frustrating and boring than it is now.

3)Labyrinth and Izaro fights remain the same. The traps can be disabled in the start of a new labyrinth run. That can be done by implementing a character who wants currency/lab only uniques* for this service.
-Turtledove, *TheDeathX

In the spirit of suggestion (2), it adresses the exact same issues but without the downside that (2) has for lab farmers. Similar to (1) suggestion it provides with an option to eliminate the arcade playstyle, in exchange for currency. Seems a feasible option true to the "trading" spirit of core PoE. Overall a solid and definately flavourful (a shady character disabling traps for you in exchange of payment is a nice touch seriously) suggestion that could even be used as a currency/unique item* sink for certain unused/unwanted orbs/and uniques* currently in the game.

4) Checkpoints in every aspirant's trial plaza (the area with the stash). Portals opened inside the labyrinth can be joined from Sarn by other party members even if they didnt start the labyrinth from the beginning. Portals can only be opened in aspirant's trial areas. Players entering portals in that way forfeit every kind of reward (loot/treasure keyes/enchantments) except ascendancy points. Players that open them but started the labyrinth from the beginning dont lose anything. Players that die or disconnect or simply get out of the labyrinth via a portal can choose to enter the labyrinth again and teleported to the most recent checkpoint they activated or the portal they opened which will lead to the aspirants trial plaza. Doing so also forfeits every kind of reward except ascendancy points. Everything else remains the same.
-Regulator

An easy way to satisfy and solve many problems at once. First and more important people who for any reason disconnect or their game crashes can have the choice to at least somewhat continue their run to get the ascendancy points by forfeiting though every other reward. A fair trade that also refines the whole lab experience. Second, it gives the chance for people who cant/dont want/simply hate the labyrinth to get the ascendancy points and nothing else at all. Labyrinth runners now can sell their runs too so people can ascend. Since nothing else changes that can for the right price keep everyone happy.


5)Give every player who joins the labyrinth the choice between 2 ways of defeating the labyrinth. The current labyrinth and the arcade playstyle is one way, the other more classic and true to the core game.
explanatory image


-AceNightfire

Options, more are always better and this suggestion just proves it. A solid well thought one, addresses perfectly 3 of the 5 points made in the OP and makes the rest reduntant. Since its optional it gives reason for all interested in the labyrinth and/or ascendancy points to run what they like. The only downside i can see is that extra work GGG needs to put to implement this.


6)Traps can be destroyed with damage from skills. That includes traps in every labyrinth as well as trials. The can be done in varius ways, either traps have flat hp, or they need 2/3/4 hits each to destroy them, or depending on the difficulty players do % damage to them with skills.
-sofocle10000, morbo

Similar to 1), instead of deactivating and puting more classical rpg elements in poe, it keeps the ARPG theme and you can smash and destroy the environmental obstacles. Sounds fun and at least its true to PoE original gameplay. A solid suggestion and a rather easy to be implemented. It also does not interfere with enchants farming neither racing since to destroy the traps it will take much more time than just jumping (or just passing) over them.




Read the two spoilers, count the suggestions, and then tell me how many ask for what you wrote or think. You cant be THAT thick. Seriously stop being a-holes and start reading, unless you dont know how in which case gtfo.

EDIT: Im leaving this here to have a laugh or two by your next rediculous answers.How any addition/change/rework in the ascencion method - while keeping it as an option also in the labyrinth - will have any negative effect in anyone's gameplay/personal experience?
Inundated with cockroaches, I am

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1609216 - labyrinth rework ideas/suggestions
Last edited by Regulator#4587 on Sep 12, 2016, 9:05:47 AM
"
Regulator wrote:
Are you determined to make yourself look bad or what? Have you even read what this thread is about?

Alternative Ascension Methods
Every suggestion made (and i could find) in the forums that is in line with the opening post will be mentioned a analyzed a bit here. Suggestions will be in bold, credits and analysis below the suggestion.

I) Every character ascents at specific levels. For example 30-50-70 or 40-60-80 which are the levels anyway most people try the labs in each difficulty. Numbers ofcourse can be changed as GGG sees fit . *Since the endgame lab was introduced another way could be used : at level 20 gain 1 ascendancy point, every 10lvls after that you get another one, up to a total of 8 at level 90
-Regulator, *Prebornfetus

This is the only suggestion that goes 100% in line with every other expansion GGG ever realeased. No gating, free for everyone (like jewel system in the tree) and gratuitous power creeping. Of course making it completely free means that ascension will be just a super OP upgrade to your character without having to do anything for it (like leveling but way more powerful) and will certainly make ascencion feel less rewarding.

II) AC points are also (meaning labyrinth as it is still awards them) awarded from a standalone fight with Izaro. We fight him in 3* stages as it is now but without having to run the labyrinth and the trials (traps, golden doors, puzzles etc) before hand. He awards nothing but AC points, he drops no loot, there is no enchant option and no treasure chests/keys. You cannot party there (only solo). No way to cheese it. *The stages can be increased to make the whole fight harder
-Regulator, *Turtledove

In that way AC are still gated but now behind the usual playstyle and not that of arcade games. It keeps the lore and the harder part of the whole labyrinth experience intact.

III) AC points are also are rewarded after killing Malachai in each difficulty. Labyrinth remains the same. *Since the endgame lab was introduced the whole process could be : 2 points each after dominus kill and 2 points after completing merciless difficulty.
-Regulator, *Prebornfetus

Upsides of this suggestion include: Malachai now has a reward linked to him, gated behind the usual playstyle, its harder to get. Downside : Lore

IV) Combine II and III. You must kill malachai to gain access to a standalone Izaro fight. Izaro rewards only AC points (no drops, no enchants, nothing at all), has 3 stages, and he is harder too kill/buffed. No party allowed inside Izaro fight. Labyrinth remains as it is now too
-EnjoyTheJourney, Pyrokar, Perq, Turtledove

Honestly the most balanced and win-win suggestion, with absolutely no downside but with many upsides. Malachai has a reward linked to him and Merciless one has a purpose. Lore stays almost 100% intact. Still gated but behind normal PoE (hack and slash/arpg) playstyle (no arcade game silliness). Its way harder to get now providing a challenge.

V) Ascendancy Points could also (labyrinth stays as is) be bought from Cadiro with coins 1k normal - 2k cruel - 4k merciless
-AllanonTB

AC points become tradable and thus easier to get, soft gate behind currency/coin farming. Lore issues. Cadiro is going away so no coins after this league. Generally not a very well though idea.

VI) New currency : Ascendancy Orb (i dont remember details on this one so ill suggest), rarity same as divines can drop only in 70+ maps, izaro has 100% chance to drop 1 (max) in mercilless only. It can work as 1 ascendancy point respec too. Labyrinthh stays as it is now.
-Unknown

Lore and labyrinth upsides stay intact. You can have early access to AC points or wait until 70+ maps and be lucky enought to get Ascendancy Orbs to drop. It gives another reward to lab runners that they can trade afterwards for more profit. Downsides include : the current labyrinth downsides, gating behind rng + arcade playstyle. A solid suggestion too.

VII) Trials by combat. Labyrinth remains as it is now (with all the rewards). A new area is created. The new area might resemble fighting pits/gladiatorial arenas/ but can be anything really, from random wilderness, to a dungeon, to "cinematic" high society illegal fighting setting (like the race event descent champion crowd watching). Opponents would be exiles/warbands kind of enemies from the current pool or even better from a new extended one. There would be 3 stages of Izaro fight like now, before each stage you have to win in a battle versus those opponents. Each fight gets progressively more difficult than the previous, for examble in the first stage there might be 10exiles that not only fight against you but against each other, the second stage the exiles become warband members and they team up against you etc.
-EnjoyTheJourney

A refreshing and fun alternative. It fits the Emperor Izaro theme (loosely based on roman emperors and cretan king Minos) and not only keeps current lore intact but enhances it. Absolutely no downside since even the playstyle resembles that of the rest of the game (ARPG/hack&slash). A very entertaining concept indeed that seems to adress almost every issue.

VIII)Account wide one time labyrinth completion after which other character gets ascendancy points as they complete entire acts.
-johnce6

A wonderful idea. Remove the tedious ordeal once and for all. Very similar to number I and III. Upsides: Simple, one time trouble, feels natural to ascend after you chance difficulty levels. Downsides : You still have to run the lab and the trials at least once.

IX)A prophecy chain - The Enlightened I, II, III. Completing the chain grants you 2 ascendancy points. Completing it more than four times for the 8 total ascendancy points grants you ascendancy respec points. Can only be activated after you hit lvl 75 and are in merciless. Common prophecy. You are not required to run the trials. Labyrinth also remains as it currently is with all its rewards.
The Enlightened Chain


- Izaro's Dream is exactly like the first stage of engame's labyrinth Izaro fight. When you are teleported you are sent to the plaza before his room. Area level 75. The prophecy is fullfilled when you kill Izaro.



-Izaro's Vision is exactly like the second stage of the endgame's labyrinth Izaro fight. When you are teleported you are sent to the plaza before his room. Area level 75. The prophecy is fullfilled when you kill Izaro.



-Izaro's Nightmare is exactly like the third and final stage of the endgame's labyrinth Izaro fight. When you are teleported you are sent to the plaza before his room. Area level 75. The prophecy is fullfilled when you kill Izaro.

Mechanics of the fights carry on to the second and third stage of the prophecy chain. Izaro doesnt Drop anything. Mechanics are not the same for all every day, they are completely random. Obviously you cant party. Every part of the prophecy chain costs 2 silver coins to seal it.

-Regulator

A similar idea to other suggestions but implemented in a different way that utilizes the new prophecy system that will probably stay in the game after the leagues. It adresses quite a few of the problems, and since the lab remains as it is, its not forced upon others. Its considerably harder to get the first 6points when compared to a normal/cruel/merci average lab and only slightly easier compared to the endgame lab because you dont to the trials. Ofcourse mechanics and requirements can change as GGG sees fit.

X)Ascendancy Divination Card drops are added to the game. The drop chance is global, but it is substantially higher in yellow maps and inside the labyrinth in each difficulty. Stack size is up to GGG. Each complete set grants 1 ascendancy point. Ofcourse the labyrinth remains as it is.
-Prebornfetus

A very solid and flavourful suggestion. It doesnt messes with lab runners and on top of that it also helps/incentivizes them even more cause there is a new tradeable item to farm. Since every lab in every difficulty has a higher chance to drop them, even low level characters or new players can join the hunt and farm them. I have to say that if this together with the ascendancy orb (VI) were to be implemented most people looking for getting a subclass only would be most happy.


XI) A special ascend event occurs each day. Completion of this would give 1 point. Possible events could be:
A. Kill 15 map bosses.
B. Sell 15 items with 6 sockets or five 5link item.
C. Gain a level.
Or anything else seriously, the possibilities are countless.
Labyrinth remains the same.

-Prebornfetus

What can i say, everything to make the ascencion medium better and more enjoyable is a step in the right direction, and this suggestions is exactly that. The events could even breath some life in the leagues and incentivize group play/player interaction. If we take that a step further by introducing high level master-like missions GGG implements without knowing some form of endgame activity too.

XII) A combination of the above

Number four with number six could make for an awesome new experience for everyone for example. Give an extra incentive for lab runners (since merci izaro will drop Ascendancy Orbs for them to sell afterwards) and allow those who dislike current labyrinth playstyle to have a fun. Other combinations could work too. For example some of the suggestions share mechanics/ideas already but they are unique enough to stand on their own.


-Ill try to update this section if any new suggestion catches my eye. Also if you know who made suggestion VI please link me the thread it was made.


Labyrinth Rework Ideas



1) The labyrinth (izaro, layout, traps, reward room) remains the same. The traps in the labyrinth and the trials can be turned off/be deactivated. How would that work : every trap room has a puzzle that leads to a crank, solving the puzzle would allow you to use the crank and thus deactivate the traps in the room.
-Regulator, Casual_Ascent

What does this achieve? Removal of the arcade playstyle the current traps impose. Slower but more immersing playstyle closer to the RPG style. Since it wont change anything in the way traps work and the layout of the labyrinth, daily lab runners can still benefit from running the lab as fast as they do now, without taking into account the puzzle, so enchants farming and leaderboards racing remains the same. It literally has zero downside if implemented like this. Arcade playstyle for those who love the current trap system, RPG playstyle for those who dislike the arcade one. Another win-win solution. Izaro fights all remain the same. The reward room remains the same. No discrepancy between the two playstyle lovers, both sides get what they want in their preffered playstyle.

2) Remove the traps completely, make the labyrinth bigger with more mandatory puzzles/gold doors, keep the ascendancy points there.
-gibbousmoon

A solid suggestion that perfectly adressess paragraphs 3 and 5, while keeping lore almost intact. In addition it promotes no content skipping. The downside : many people like the arcade playstyle the traps offer and would definately be annoyed by a change like that. Furthermore if something like that was implemented and the labyrinth did indeed get bigger with more mandatory puzzles/gold doors, it would make enchantment system a million times more frustrating and boring than it is now.

3)Labyrinth and Izaro fights remain the same. The traps can be disabled in the start of a new labyrinth run. That can be done by implementing a character who wants currency/lab only uniques* for this service.
-Turtledove, *TheDeathX

In the spirit of suggestion (2), it adresses the exact same issues but without the downside that (2) has for lab farmers. Similar to (1) suggestion it provides with an option to eliminate the arcade playstyle, in exchange for currency. Seems a feasible option true to the "trading" spirit of core PoE. Overall a solid and definately flavourful (a shady character disabling traps for you in exchange of payment is a nice touch seriously) suggestion that could even be used as a currency/unique item* sink for certain unused/unwanted orbs/and uniques* currently in the game.

4) Checkpoints in every aspirant's trial plaza (the area with the stash). Portals opened inside the labyrinth can be joined from Sarn by other party members even if they didnt start the labyrinth from the beginning. Portals can only be opened in aspirant's trial areas. Players entering portals in that way forfeit every kind of reward (loot/treasure keyes/enchantments) except ascendancy points. Players that open them but started the labyrinth from the beginning dont lose anything. Players that die or disconnect or simply get out of the labyrinth via a portal can choose to enter the labyrinth again and teleported to the most recent checkpoint they activated or the portal they opened which will lead to the aspirants trial plaza. Doing so also forfeits every kind of reward except ascendancy points. Everything else remains the same.
-Regulator

An easy way to satisfy and solve many problems at once. First and more important people who for any reason disconnect or their game crashes can have the choice to at least somewhat continue their run to get the ascendancy points by forfeiting though every other reward. A fair trade that also refines the whole lab experience. Second, it gives the chance for people who cant/dont want/simply hate the labyrinth to get the ascendancy points and nothing else at all. Labyrinth runners now can sell their runs too so people can ascend. Since nothing else changes that can for the right price keep everyone happy.


5)Give every player who joins the labyrinth the choice between 2 ways of defeating the labyrinth. The current labyrinth and the arcade playstyle is one way, the other more classic and true to the core game.
explanatory image


-AceNightfire

Options, more are always better and this suggestion just proves it. A solid well thought one, addresses perfectly 3 of the 5 points made in the OP and makes the rest reduntant. Since its optional it gives reason for all interested in the labyrinth and/or ascendancy points to run what they like. The only downside i can see is that extra work GGG needs to put to implement this.


6)Traps can be destroyed with damage from skills. That includes traps in every labyrinth as well as trials. The can be done in varius ways, either traps have flat hp, or they need 2/3/4 hits each to destroy them, or depending on the difficulty players do % damage to them with skills.
-sofocle10000, morbo

Similar to 1), instead of deactivating and puting more classical rpg elements in poe, it keeps the ARPG theme and you can smash and destroy the environmental obstacles. Sounds fun and at least its true to PoE original gameplay. A solid suggestion and a rather easy to be implemented. It also does not interfere with enchants farming neither racing since to destroy the traps it will take much more time than just jumping (or just passing) over them.




Read the two spoilers, count the suggestions, and then tell me how many ask for what you wrote or think. You cant be THAT thick. Seriously stop being a-holes and start reading, unless you dont know how in which case gtfo.

EDIT: Im leaving this here to have a laugh or two by your next rediculous answers.How any addition/change/rework in the ascencion method - while keeping it as an option also in the labyrinth - will have any negative effect in anyone's gameplay/personal experience?


1- Calm down.
2- Most of your "solutions" are funny. You want to keep the labyrinth the same but to earn the ascendancy points you have to do things that doesn't involve the labyrinth.

That just make that place almost worthless and the lore would be totally destroyed.

I just don't understand how people can't deal with the labyrinth, I just soloed it yesterday in merciless with my melee Trickster with dual claw. I didn't die once and I enjoyed the ride. Am I insane? Or maybe I have just stopped and listend, learned how to fight against Izaro and how to deal with traps?

People just have to adapt to it. You just can't go full YOLO and playing the same you've played the last 50 hours.
The Lord's Labyrinth awaits you.
Choose wisely, strike quickly.
Thrust completely.
And may you find the ending that you deserve.
"
Regulator wrote:
Really funny fact, about 4/5 after the page 100, are posts from white knights.

Are you that bored, seriously ?
Especially since this is just plain wrong.
By the way, Have you noticed that there are suggestions from "white knights" in the previous page on things that could be changed about the lab for everybody to enjoy it ? Have you ?

Really funny.
SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading.
"
Xtorma wrote:
"
Turtledove wrote:
"
MekaDragon wrote:

Then goodbye!


They're already gone and leaving everyday without ever logging onto the forums. I would have been among them if I ran into labyrinth the first time I played this game, actually probably the first trial.


Good. they should play something they can enjoy, not try and change something others enjoy. Choice is a good thing, and needs only a mouse click to employ. Plenty of people playing, lots of activity in town. No discernable difference in population.

Lab is fine.


It is destructive to PoE and all of our best interests to take this attitude. The ascendancy points can be made available outside labyrinth without hurting anyone's playing style while significantly improving the enjoyment of many others.

Labyrinth is horrible and not fun for many. This is what makes the dung beetle analogy so accurate. Some like it and some don't. It is counter productive to deny the reality of this fact.
Over 430 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1040 posters in support (thread # 1702621) Thank you all! GGG will implement a different method for ascension in PoE2. Retired!
"
Turtledove wrote:

It is destructive to PoE and all of our best interests to take this attitude. The ascendancy points can be made available outside labyrinth without hurting anyone's playing style while significantly improving the enjoyment of many others.

Labyrinth is horrible and not fun for many. This is what makes the dung beetle analogy so accurate. Some like it and some don't. It is counter productive to deny the reality of this fact.


And I hate leveling masters every league, why does GGG force me to level them to gain the benefits of them. I mean I wanted to do perandus map mod on all of my maps, but GGG made me level zana first, what type of shit is that.


The lab and AC points go hand and hand together, it doesn't matter if you enjoy doing it or not. We've been over this they don't care if you enjoy doing it, because you do it to gain the points for AC. Sacrificing game design, in order to shut the 1\2 dozen of you guys up that literally can't enjoy the game because of the lab, despite:

A) only playing on standard, so have to do the lab even less then anyone else
B) can simply run thru it so fast with legacy gear it doesn't really matter
C) only have to actually run thru it twice per previously made characters (merciless+uber)


But nope you guys have to constantly complain about something they literally said "we have no plans changing".

Please tell me why you think you posting for the 50th time on the topic makes any difference, if you can't come up with a response that doesn't involve a shit eating analogy, then don't bother responding.

You aren't discussing anything new at this point, the last time anything new was discussed was when the uber lab\trials came out.
https://youtu.be/T9kygXtkh10?t=285

FeelsBadMan

Remove MF from POE, make juiced map the new MF.
"
Regulator wrote:
Really funny fact, (..) Why cant you let this die? Isnt a whole new expansion out there to enjoy? Still playing the forum game? Nothing better to do? A whole new expansion with lots of thingies to do and yet you choose to participate on this thread.


you told us you are going to leave - you have even created a goodbye post somewhere around here. and it is you who spend time playing the forum game. or you have changed your mind and despite saying so you still play (on standard, so we cannot see the achievements)

it is really funny that you are the one complaining about the quoted stuff.

if you 'the holly band of the Lab' werent so aggressive and obnoxious maybe youll find some sympathy. but you all did EVERYTHING including PM harassment to make enemies. including devs. and you expect something to happen to bend a game to your liking while you act like that? because what?

you had your chance with polite feedback - what you did was to wage war and ruin everyone's else day by spamming this very forum with your alt accounts and shit-eating analogies

maybe it is time to stick to your words and leave?

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