SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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Zalhan2 wrote:

The point is they spent a lot of money and time on a lot of major improvements and the numbers got worse because all these new players tried it and hit the Lab and quit.

They could have done nothing and had the same number of players and had less drop off.

Clearly the Lab is a player killer.

GGG to their credit has not cared about popularity over what they feel is correct gameplay. I complained about the old loot rules in beta (ffa loot) and their position was they felt it was unpopular with many but they felt it was the right approach.

They do change their minds over time. I do not think it will be (like FFA) for many weeks or months. Does not mean we should shut up or that we are wrong.

Or they are going to change it, who really knows.

No way to prove that claim, you are assuming a lot by stating that which honestly just makes you look like a fool.


Clearly the lab isn't the killer or GGG would have already changed it or announced a change in 2.4, clearly there might be other factors to consider, but by all means keep repeating the same incorrect information, maybe you can get your other lab hating friends to agree on it, but anyone that can actually think would realize your just stating random shit and seeing if it sticks.


You should shutup about it because it makes it impossible to hear the feedback from players that actually might provide insight or actually well thought out feedback, we all know you, turtle, regulator, and Pyrokar dislike the lab.

Anyone that can recognize the fact that you constantly complaining about the same thing to make the issue appear larger can realize that. Anyone that can see GGG's stance is clearly set that the lab is going to be the option to get the points.

They will change the lab when it makes business sense and a fix is in place. It must be a large undertaking. I expect it to hit at 3.0 with a huge host of other improvements to the game. Probably the biggest update of all time that will really tell us where the path is headed. Only they know the true numbers on lab and I get the sense those numbers are becoming more and more clear from alt creation, player retention, and the like. Just one look at their own forums and it is clear they have an issue. Lab is polarizing. Splitting the base and doing nothing itself is detrimental to the game and costing them players. Players do not put up with a toxic community, absent company, and broken gameplay forever.

^
sweet desillusions ....

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Zalhan2 wrote:

The point is they spent a lot of money and time on a lot of major improvements and the numbers got worse because all these new players tried it and hit the Lab and quit.

They could have done nothing and had the same number of players and had less drop off.

Clearly the Lab is a player killer.

Another bunch of blatant lies taken out of your magic hat, you have one more time absolutely nothing to support that claim.

The only thing i don't like about the lab is that there are no check points. It's not fun to disconnect or crash in the last room with izaro. We should be able to restart from a checkpoint if that happens.

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4) Players that die or disconnect or simply get out of the labyrinth via a portal can choose to enter the labyrinth again and teleported to the most recent checkpoint they activated or the portal they opened which will lead to the aspirants trial plaza. Doing so also forfeits every kind of reward except ascendancy points. Everything else remains the same. -Regulator

Good idea but i don't agree with losing all rewards for using a checkpoint. Some of us already got our ascendancy points and just want to do lab runs for izaro's treasure chests. We can't help it if we crash or disconnect.

If i have to forfeit this when using a checkpoint there is no point for me going back in at all except the first time for ascendancy points.

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Emphasy wrote:

They will if they feel they need to. But then again they have a big issue. Half or even more of the people disliking the lab even openly in the forum are entirely unable to give a clear reason why.

I don't see this at all. While I agree with what you are perhaps intending to say, that their reasons do not give enough information to be immediately useful to GGG, even the less eloquent of posters are usually able to say things such as "it's boring," "it feels unrewarding," or "it feels like work."

Now the meat of the issue is not whether people find it boring, unrewarding, or more like work than like play. Because people obviously do.

The meat of the issue, as you imply--correctly--is WHY do they find it this way, and WHY don't they find other areas of the game this way?

I've given my own theories for this earlier in this thread, but a lot of lab defenders seem more interested in trying to derail the discussion back to the "whether" and away from the "why." (And those who dislike the lab are taking the bait, and allowing themselves to be derailed. Stop doing that.)

"People don't really dislike the lab as much as you say."
"You are exaggerating the problem."
"There is no distinction between the lab and other parts of the game."

And, most significantly,

"People who feel that way are wrong."

As if an opinion or feeling, ANY opinion or feeling, can be logically wrong.

Not only are these statements unhelpful, straw men, or illogical, they are generally BORING, because they've been stated, knocked down, restated, knocked down again, and so on ad nauseam.

So let's focus instead on the more interesting question of "why," because that's far more interesting than

"You lie."
"No, you lie."
"No, you do."
"Nuh uh."
"Yuh huh."

People engaged in this kind of conversation, you know who you are. Stop boring us to tears. Please. :)

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kompaniet wrote:

This picture alone and countless others are enough to prove that the labyrinth is already overwhelmed with rewards and loot pinatas more than any other part of the game and on top of that it cockblocks character progression too.

And what we ask? An alternative way to get the ascendancy points by just fighting Izaro without ANY of the other rewards. Yes too much to ask, against the lore and other nonsense. I call bullshit. And when bullshit is called, dung beetles arive.

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gibbousmoon wrote:

The meat of the issue, as you imply--correctly--is WHY do they find it this way, and WHY don't they find other areas of the game this way?

Well I can see couple of things about that :
1- Cannot really overgear traps
2- Cannot save progress ( more hardcore like )
3- Have to think, different from brainlessly zerging everything on the screen ( related to 1 of course ).
4- Technical issues

The last one is definitely something that needs to be looked at, GGG has greatly improved it already.

Now, would the lab have received such complains if it had been done 2 years ago, where people were not used to just instantly kill everything and the game was at a slower pace (and was closer to a "hardcore" experience) ?
I do not think so, at least proportionally less imho.

This is of course just my opinion, but I do feel that ther is a lot of bad faith in many cases, relted to the 3rd point there.

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Regulator wrote:

And what we ask? An alternative way to get the ascendancy points by just fighting Izaro without ANY of the other rewards. Yes too much to ask, against the lore and other nonsense.

Sounds like some people do definitely want to be able to overgear the whole thing.
=> point 3.

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Fruz wrote:

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Regulator wrote:

And what we ask? An alternative way to get the ascendancy points by just fighting Izaro without ANY of the other rewards. Yes too much to ask, against the lore and other nonsense. I call bullshit. And when bullshit is called, dung beetles arive.

Sounds like some people do definitely want to be able to overgear the whole thing.
=> point 3.

I am a prophet. I am BATMAN also.

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Regulator wrote:

And what we ask? An alternative way to get the ascendancy points by just fighting Izaro

Too easy. Any alternative way of ascension that doesnt include a Labyrinth run, would have to be much more difficult / time consuming than doing it as intended. Else it would just invalidate all the Labs, up to Uber.

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Fruz wrote:

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gibbousmoon wrote:

Now the meat of the issue is not whether people find it boring, unrewarding, or more like work than like play. Because people obviously do.

The meat of the issue, as you imply--correctly--is WHY do they find it this way, and WHY don't they find other areas of the game this way?

Well I can see couple of things about that :
1- Cannot really overgear traps
2- Cannot save progress ( more hardcore like )
3- Have to think, different from brainlessly zerging everything on the screen ( related to 1 of course ).
4- Technical issues

While a good first effort, the answers you provide seem to assume that people are being disingenuous when they say they find the Labyrinth boring, unrewarding, or more like work than like play. You imply that the real reasons they dislike the lab are elsewhere.

That really doesn't get us anywhere. When people say their opinion is ABC and someone else says, "You are lying, the truth is your opinion is actually XYZ, and here is my theory as to why you feel that way," the discussion doesn't move forward at all.

Have a second look at the REAL question ("Why do players feel ABC?") and you'll see that all four of your provided answers don't even make sense.