SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

Please go back and catch up, then post. The importance of the points has already been resolved.

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goetzjam wrote:

I mean its a free game so its worth trying out, just don't buy a damn thing unless you know you are into it otherwise you are just supporting that style of game going forward.


I've been playing D3 and GD while I wait for the next league, a bit of Dota 2, but I watch it more then I play it these days.

Yea TI was really fun to watch this year almost as much fun as this game used to be.

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Zalhan2 wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

I mean its a free game so its worth trying out, just don't buy a damn thing unless you know you are into it otherwise you are just supporting that style of game going forward.


I've been playing D3 and GD while I wait for the next league, a bit of Dota 2, but I watch it more then I play it these days.

Yea TI was really fun to watch this year almost as much fun as this game used to be.

Its more fun if you go in person (which I have in TI3 and TI6), but honestly the lab has nothing to do with how "less fun" poe has gotten, unless you wanna talk about how silly AC classes have made the game.

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goetzjam wrote:

Its more fun if you go in person (which I have in TI3 and TI6), but honestly the lab has nothing to do with how "less fun" poe has gotten, unless you wanna talk about how silly AC classes have made the game.

Dung beetles love eating dung. For those that may not know, dung is another word for poop. Dung beetles can't understand that others may not like eating poop. You see, dung beetles have very teeny tiny brains and think that since they LOVE eating poop then everyone else must love eating poop. If someone says that they don't like eating poop then dung beetles think that they must not understand their own mind. They just can't understand such a thing and sometimes come up with strange explanations.

When a beetle that doesn't like eating poop says, "I really used to have fun eating here but not so much ever since they started serving poop."

The dung beetle will think, "Eating poop can't have anything to do with him having less fun eating here." So the dung beetle says, "I know much better than you why you claim that it is not fun eating poop here. I'm such a magnanimous dung beetle I'll bless you with my superior knowledge and explain to you why you don't like eating poop here." (You see dung beetles have such teeny tiny brains they don't understand that they are not capable of understanding much at all.) "I'll tell you the reason you don't like eating poop here. It is because there is no shade. I will not allow you to not enjoy eating poop because you must have more fun. Therefore, you shall eat your daily serving of poop only at night."

Oh you poor souls... forced to play ~1 hour of Lab for 6 opieop ascendancy points. In a game where a character is played for 100+ hours, sometimes 1000+ hours.

Meh, its your choice. The game is perfectly playable without ascending, just not as fun. The same way it's playable without having a 6-link, a level 100 char or mirrored items.

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Turtledove wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

Its more fun if you go in person (which I have in TI3 and TI6), but honestly the lab has nothing to do with how "less fun" poe has gotten, unless you wanna talk about how silly AC classes have made the game.

Dung beetles love eating dung. For those that may not know, dung is another word for poop. Dung beetles can't understand that others may not like eating poop. You see, dung beetles have very teeny tiny brains and think that since they LOVE eating poop then everyone else must love eating poop. If someone says that they don't like eating poop then dung beetles think that they must not understand their own mind. They just can't understand such a thing and sometimes come up with strange explanations.

When a beetle that doesn't like eating poop says, "I really used to have fun eating here but not so much ever since they started serving poop."

The dung beetle will think, "Eating poop can't have anything to do with him having less fun eating here." So the dung beetle says, "I know much better than you why you claim that it is not fun eating poop here. I'm such a magnanimous dung beetle I'll bless you with my superior knowledge and explain to you why you don't like eating poop here." (You see dung beetles have such teeny tiny brains they don't understand that they are not capable of understanding much at all.) "I'll tell you the reason you don't like eating poop here. It is because there is no shade. I will not allow you to not enjoy eating poop because you must have more fun. Therefore, you shall eat your daily serving of poop only at night."

There is a problem with your dung beetle analogy...

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Zalhan2 wrote:

People have basically said its like having to eat poop to enter a high class restaurant.

Some of us would rather not eat poop and eat at Burger King instead.

This analogy is kind of perfect, since D3 is low quality but good for some quick satisfaction when nothing better is available, made generic and accessible for the widest possible customer base, by a company whose only motive is profits. Just like Burger King food.

Calling the lab "poop" is hyperbole, but it does feel like a chore to many players, and indeed seems to be designed AS a chore, with the lion's share of its reward happening after you complete it and not while you complete it. Whereas the rest of PoE, with perhaps the exception of Masters grinding, feels much more satisfying WHILE you play it, particularly in Softcore where dying doesn't kill your run completely.

Now, the Labyrinth has much better production values than the Masters, and is arguably superior in quality overall, but the basic philosophy behind both pieces of content seems similar: WORK to get a REWARD. I think the only reason we don't see lots of Masters hate threads is

1) The gameplay per se is not such a radical departure, Haku's annoying gauntlets and Catarina's minions' horrible AI notwithstanding. Also, the content is more bite-sized, making the annoying bits slightly less annoying.

2) The consequences for skipping this content aren't nearly as dire as the consequences for not doing the Labyrinth.

Since getting rid of reason #2 would be much more impactful upon GGG's bottom line than getting rid of reason #1, I predict that GGG will simply remove the Ascendancy points from the Labyrinth, rather than tweak it heavily. (In other words, that they will decrease the consequences for not doing the unpleasant chore.)

This disappoints me, because the lore, voice-overs, graphics, Izaro-related dynamics, and overall atmosphere of the Labyrinth are all great. The Labyrinth could be turned into something fun for everyone without *that* much work (relatively speaking, of course).

So I hope my prediction is wrong. But I see it as much more likely that it is right.

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gibbousmoon wrote:

2) The consequences for skipping this content aren't nearly as dire as the consequences for not doing the Labyrinth.

Not true. Playing the game without being able to master craft your gear, is much harder than playing it without asc points.

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morbo wrote:

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gibbousmoon wrote:

2) The consequences for skipping this content aren't nearly as dire as the consequences for not doing the Labyrinth.

Not true. Playing the game without being able to master craft your gear, is much harder than playing it without asc points.

I disagree, having played since before either was implemented.

And I play exclusively self-found, a playstyle that benefits especially strongly from master-crafting.

We are now exclusively in the realm of opinion, but I suspect that your perspective on this is a niche one. People didn't go nuts over the huge jump in power when Master crafting was introduced.

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gibbousmoon wrote:

I disagree, having played since before either was implemented.

And I play exclusively self-found, a playstyle that benefits especially strongly from master-crafting.

We are now exclusively in the realm of opinion, but I suspect that your perspective on this is a niche one. People didn't go nuts over the huge jump in power when Master crafting was introduced.

I have to agree with Gibbousmoon there, master-crafting is a nice addition to reduced the impact of RNG on gear, essentially.

The power creep from ascendancy can be just nuts.