SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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Prebornfetus wrote:

Meanwhile back in the thread removing Ascendancy from lab and adding an alternate method hurts who? The uber runners (prolly juggernauts) who want bragging rights that they did the uber lab and in less time than it takes everyone else to do normal lab?

Keep ur lab. Keep the loot. Have fun farming enchants. Its all good. Just remove ascendancy from it. This is so simple and literally hurts only the egotistic selfish players who want to brag about it and hold it over others.

Perhaps it is not an important enough issue for them to assign people to it at this time. Maybe they will allocate resources to it at a later date, since they have already said there are no plans to change it, but they are not opposed to it. You crusaders are not special. You will just have to wait until your issue makes it to the top of the to do list, if it is even being considered at all.

Now that Atlas of the Worlds is coming out, and GGG has gone to great trouble to make the Atlas completely optional and only for those who like it and want to play it, I suggest putting the "optional" (TM) Ascendancy Classes behind the first three Guardians of the Void you defeat, with the final two ascendancy points behind the Shaper.

GGG can leave the lab as a loot-fest, so at least some people might continue to run it with their Juggernauts. Admittedly, the normal and cruel lab will become pretty redundant, but they already are apart from the ascendancy points, and who will really mourn their loss?

As an added benefit, completing the Atlas (initially without having any of those optional ascendancy classes) will be more challenging than the easy task of running the lab a few times, so people will have to work for their ascendancy points instead of getting them almost for free.

And (despite the sarcasm) I would seriously prefer this method as I refuse on principle to be forced into running the lab even once, whatever bribes GGG puts behind it.

Your right setting up a model where other people have to play for you since you picked a build that worked since beta till the lab but now sucks is such a great idea.

We should change all games this way.

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Prebornfetus wrote:

Meanwhile back in the thread removing Ascendancy from lab and adding an alternate method hurts who? The uber runners (prolly juggernauts) who want bragging rights that they did the uber lab and in less time than it takes everyone else to do normal lab?

Keep ur lab. Keep the loot. Have fun farming enchants. Its all good. Just remove ascendancy from it. This is so simple and literally hurts only the egotistic selfish players who want to brag about it and hold it over others.

Actually I might be in the minority but the Ascendancy's made normal content scale too fast. They need to roll back both since they both have issues.

At the very least give all 8 points at red map time (automatically) and make the red maps MUCH more accessible. This would make people play from 90 to 100 more.

No one needs them for normal content.


For character progress not having them is like cutting the balls off your character. Its not like loot Progression which IS earned.

Character progression is why a lot of us play. To make a character and progress it thru the game till it grows from a boy to a man.

Any developer who can not see this is really out of touch and I question his ability to understand his player base.

For the record I say leave the LAB alone (which is a bit of a compromise for me since I want it completely gone but some people seem to like it). At 90 if you haven't done it yet you get all 8.

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Regulator wrote:

On a recent interiew about the AoW expansion there was a rather interesting part (thx AceNightfire for reminding to me) "Grinding Gear told me it wanted to make sure that players could ignore the Atlas entirely if they didn t like it, not wanting to alienate current players", but labyrinth is exactly that, it is forced to everyone, and thus alienating a good portion of the player in the proccess. Thats dishonesty and contradiction.

I answered you in a previous thread because the answer to this is quite obvious, but you seem to have purposely ignored it, or maybe you do not understand, who knows ...
This is so very ironic with what you said right after lol :
"WK dont really understand reasoning and valid points or they choose not to"


The AoW is an endgame tool, what people reaching 60+ value the most and where they spend most of their time is endgame, obviously that's one of the most important things and GGG does not want some people to start to dislike endgame.

Lab however is just a one thing to do per difficulty, no big deal.

Don't blush too much, you should have thought about that before.
/facepalm




If you cannot bear the fact that you guys are a vocal minority, then sad for you ....
Cannot accept the truth ? ouch

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Fruz wrote:

The AoW is an endgame tool, what people reaching 60+ value the most and where they spend most of their time is endgame, obviously that's one of the most important things and GGG does not want some people to start to dislike endgame.

But obviously they do want some people (who may not even reach the endgame) to dislike the main part of the game? There is no principled difference between making the lab optional and the atlas optional, whatever distinctions one might draw between them.

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Lab however is just a one thing to do per difficulty [per character], no big deal.

No big deal to you, perhaps, but a big deal to me (and many others).

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If you cannot bear the fact that you guys are a vocal minority, then sad for you ....
Cannot accept the truth ?

And you know this is the truth how? Because, I suppose, Chris Wilson said as much --- a comment I'm pretty sure he would like to take back given how dismissive it was to the many players who do dislike the lab.

Jay Wilson made the following comment when he finally acknowledged the failure of the D3 auction house system he had championed:

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"I think we would turn it off if we could," Wilson said during his talk. But the problem is "not as easy as that;" with all of Blizzard's current players, he says the company "has no idea" how many players like the system or hate it. Blizzard, Wilson said, doesn't want to remove a feature that lots of players will be unhappy to see go.

If Blizzard couldn't tell how many players liked or hated the auction house, despite the fact that over 50 percent of players used it regularly, do you think GGG is in an any better position to really tell how many players like or dislike the lab (especially when, after all their work, they surely have a predisposition to assume that the lab is a great popular success with only a few complainers)?

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ShaUrley wrote:

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Fruz wrote:

The AoW is an endgame tool, what people reaching 60+ value the most and where they spend most of their time is endgame, obviously that's one of the most important things and GGG does not want some people to start to dislike endgame.

But obviously they do want some people (who may not even reach the endgame) to dislike the main part of the game? There is no principled difference between making the lab optional and the atlas optional, whatever distinctions one might draw between them.

I hope that you are not serious there :/
Let's have a game than 100% of the people like, a game that frustrate nobody and that makes everyone happy ..... and where everyone get bored after 3 sec spent on it.
Great game design that would be.
Labyrinth is not the main part of the game, wtf is that bad faith now ?
I just stated what the obvious difference was.

And obviously it's per character, all characters are different, we should call captain obvious to help you here.


Good job quoting pieces of informations completely out of their context without any link or any kind of source, good job lol.
There is a huge difference between HA and the lab ( bigger than between AoW and the lab ), but since you were not able to understand my previous point, I think that it would be a waste of time to start explanations there ( call captain obvious ? it might be a little less obvious but it still is so ... )

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Fruz wrote:

Let's have a game than 100% of the people like, a game that frustrate nobody and that makes everyone happy ..... and where everyone get bored after 3 sec spent on it.
Great game design that would be.

And that's what would happen if ascendancy points were removed from the lab? I guess PoE must've been a pretty crappy game before GGG introduced the labyrinth.

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Labyrinth is not the main part of the game, wtf is that bad faith now ?

The labyrinth (excluding the uber-lab) is part of the main game that people are expected to play through before reaching the end game (though they might defer the merciless lab until after mapping for a while).

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Good job quoting pieces of informations completely out of their context without any link or any kind of source, good job lol.

Try clicking on the link I provided.

I'm just waiting for 2.4 patch notes. Once those release, one of two things will happen:

a) Ascendancy will be divorced from Lab, as it should be, and I can finally enjoy the game again.

or

b) Nothing changes, and nothing else they do to the game will matter even one iota to me, because the thing I care about most is still fucked.

It's that simple. Lab is trash.

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Fruz wrote:

If you cannot bear the fact that you guys are a vocal minority, then sad for you ....
Cannot accept the truth ? ouch

Sorry but your silly unsupported assertions is not really known to be reality, unless you have access to some unpublished GGG reports. I think you say this silly thing just to try and troll people. Does it really bring you pleasure to be a troll?