SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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Turtledove wrote:

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Telzen wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

We just want to play PoE. At the same time, ascendancy points are too critical to ignore in a game about optimizing one's build/character. We want to be able to play PoE to earn ascendancy points.

You can, just go do it. Stop making a huge deal out of nothing. Just play the game or leave. The labyrinth is barely different than normal PoE, all it does is throw a few traps between the groups of enemies. You act like you go to do the labyrinth and it becomes a fps or something.

I could but I play games for fun. The labyrinth is boring, irritating, tedious, and not fun.

The dung beetle says, you're hungry there's lots of food right there just eat it. As the dung beetle is pointing out a huge pile of sticky poop. Stop making a huge deal out of nothing. Just eat the food or leave. The food I like, the poop, is barely different from food you like to eat. All it is your kind of food that has passed through the digestive system of that cow over there. That actually makes it taste better.

You see the dung beetle has a teeny tiny brain and is not able or even interested in trying to understand someone else's point of view. It is easier to just demand they do what the dung beetle says.

Stop fighting and let me tell you what is fun dammit!. Make a clone character like me and stop playing the things you loved before we made your build unplayable.

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Fruz wrote:

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Regulator wrote:

There is a question i once posted that i still have not seen an answer that counters the basic notion of what the thread tries to achieve. How any addition/change/rework in the ascencion method - while keeping it as an option also in the labyrinth - will have any negative effect in anyone's gameplay/personal experience?

It has.

I'm not going to scrap the zhole thread for you, but I will give you some simple response elements :

- Consistency. The Labyrinth test if you're worthy of Ascencion, I like playing a game where what you do matters. They both go together, having the ascendancy stone after Malachai would make no sense whatsoever

- Lore : this one is pretty obvious, kinda goes with the first element though.

- You have not chosen to play a game with traps in it like this ? Well guess what : I ( and I am ready to bet that originally most players ) have not chosen to play PoE to have my hand f**king holded during the game, I want to deserver those points, and that's lab for you.
Because if you guys would get your end ( which is not happening imho, srsly ), that would be one more step into the assisted gameplay that PoE has already partly become.

- Dev time : if some of the solutions proposed ( implying a lab rework, for example with puzzles ) were to be implemented ( some of the ideas are nice, I would to some extent like some of those things in the game ), it would most likely take a significant part of PoE's developpement, and I would definitely prefer GGG's staff to work on something more useful ( since I do not think that GGG spending time trying to change the lab is useful ).


"suffer", "alienating", do you hear yourself seriously ?
This is a game, take a break man, sersiously lol.

"subjective opinions" => gj there

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Turtledove wrote:

There is a tendency on the Internet to if not demonize, make the "other" group subhuman

Even though I would first say that this is plain paranoia, let me tell you something :
- Such phenomenon ( so not what is actually happening here ) are just .... nature, sociololy.
It's not proper to the internet at all.

"dehumanizing" => rofl, paranoia again there

This dung beetle comparison and trying to hide behind it is becoming really pathetic btw, get over it maybe ?

You could say he is err pooping on this thread.

PS. this is a joke not serious.

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Albinosaurus wrote:

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Xtorma wrote:

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Albinosaurus wrote:

[Removed by Support] Blind fanboyism is a helluva thing.

Aren't you the one who told me I didn't have the right to comment on a thread because I wasn't a true altaholic like you? If that isn't someone on the superior train, I don't know what is.

Funny how you feel only your opinion is good and anyone else who has one is blind. Before you start accusing people of trying to make themselves feel superior, you better look in the mirror.

I am certainly glad you like the way I handle things, I will strive to keep it real going forward.

Oh, should I trust the word of white people about black culture issues? Or straight people on gay rights? How about natural born citizens regarding immigration? Telling you that you aren't part of the group that it pertains to has nothing to do with superiority, despite your hypocritical claims, and is not the same as "you don't have a right to comment," which is not what I said. However, if you want to have a say in something that affects a group you don't belong to, you will need more than a victim complex (waaah, I'm left out)--you will need reason and facts.

You aren't keeping anything real. You simply distort what is said so you can try to Straw Man people.[Removed by Support]

[Removed by Support]

I don't understand what this has to do with a unfun dungeon that does not belong in an arpg?

We dont want this bogged down in personal attacks and battles from lab haters and supporters. The last thing we want is locked thread. Lets get back on track on thoughts about removing ascendancy from lab. I am for it. It makes sense. Makes haters have hope and lovers arent really affected

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Prebornfetus wrote:

Makes haters have hope and lovers arent really affected

I don't love the lab.
Originally, I was dislinking it, now I kinda like it.
Still, what you are saying is just plain wrong, not to say it's BS.
Read my previous message if you want to understand, I have not seen many messages from you that seemed open for discussion tho.

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Fruz wrote:

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Prebornfetus wrote:

Makes haters have hope and lovers arent really affected

I don't love the lab.
Originally, I was dislinking it, now I kinda like it.
Still, what you are saying is just plain wrong, not to say it's BS.
Read my previous message if you want to understand, I have not seen many messages from you that seemed open for discussion tho.

So you support lab should hold ascendancy because of lore, consistency, no hand holding, and dev time.

Lore - I dont think many players play the game for the story or lore. This is a nonissue.

Consistency/Hand Holding - You say you need to be tested to earn ascendancy. You are right here but the builds that ascendancy doesnt work for like say evasion where one wrong step and ur dead buy their way through it because they literally cant do it. They could test players in other ways where the chief aim is for the player to actually do it and want to do it and not be carried through it. The lab is a cakewalk for some so they arent being tested. The lab is impossible for some so they arnt being tested after they buy a carry.

Dev Time - You dont think devs spending time on lab is useful. Well I have to say this is the biggest oversight on your part. The outcry proves that this lab issue is important. Many players are affected by this. Many have only made 1 or 2 posts and then are never seen again. Guess what these are the players that have already given up. We lab haters continue to post because we care that much. It matters. Our opinion does matter just like urs. Because it matters this much it is worth dev time to look at and fix.

thanks for ur time and reading

And let's not talk about keeping the gameplay consistent. It would be way too hypocritical.

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Fruz wrote:

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Regulator wrote:

There is a question i once posted that i still have not seen an answer that counters the basic notion of what the thread tries to achieve. How any addition/change/rework in the ascencion method - while keeping it as an option also in the labyrinth - will have any negative effect in anyone's gameplay/personal experience?

It has.

I'm not going to scrap the zhole thread for you, but I will give you some simple response elements :

- Consistency. The Labyrinth test if you're worthy of Ascencion, I like playing a game where what you do matters. They both go together, having the ascendancy stone after Malachai would make no sense whatsoever

- Lore : this one is pretty obvious, kinda goes with the first element though.

- You have not chosen to play a game with traps in it like this ? Well guess what : I ( and I am ready to bet that originally most players ) have not chosen to play PoE to have my hand f**king holded during the game, I want to deserver those points, and that's lab for you.
Because if you guys would get your end ( which is not happening imho, srsly ), that would be one more step into the assisted gameplay that PoE has already partly become.

- Dev time : if some of the solutions proposed ( implying a lab rework, for example with puzzles ) were to be implemented ( some of the ideas are nice, I would to some extent like some of those things in the game ), it would most likely take a significant part of PoE's developpement, and I would definitely prefer GGG's staff to work on something more useful ( since I do not think that GGG spending time trying to change the lab is useful ).


"suffer", "alienating", do you hear yourself seriously ?
This is a game, take a break man, sersiously lol.

"subjective opinions" => gj there

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Turtledove wrote:

There is a tendency on the Internet to if not demonize, make the "other" group subhuman

Even though I would first say that this is plain paranoia, let me tell you something :
- Such phenomenon ( so not what is actually happening here ) are just .... nature, sociololy.
It's not proper to the internet at all.

"dehumanizing" => rofl, paranoia again there

This dung beetle comparison and trying to hide behind it is becoming really pathetic btw, get over it maybe ?

No it hasnt mate, and that alone says a lot just like the fact that your answer is on another's popular as well as ingorant WK level. And i dont know for you, but the last person i made a comparison to that specific WK he was insulted and said i taken things to far. You on the other side seem more happy to fill in his shoes and thus come out as "blind"

But let me shred your ignorant post to pieces, as ive done countless times with others. Have in mind that your post is completely irrelevant to the question asked, and thus i believe you did not understood it well, so have a second go at it

- You like playing a game that what you do matter eh? Then tell me man why the traps completely ignore the amount of life/es ive taken in the treee, or the amount of armour/evasion? Clearly my choices dont matter, even if i invested a lot on them. So throw consistency out of the window, because not only the thing i just mentioned applies, but also the labyrinth has clearly as devs and gaming experts/sites a lot different feel and gameplay experience that the rest of the game. As for the makes no sense part, the same i could say about every single WK non-argument, still though they believe different. Human behaviour and personality is truly a wonder to look upon.

- OOhh the lore argument again, go look at the first page on the first post. Open some spoilers and TANTAM! look there are suggestions that dont mess up with the lore AT ALL. WHAT????!?!?? THATS INSANITY!

- Oh you havent read the opening post at all right? Again go there, see what the suggestions are about, and start counting how many of those ask for completely free points. Then come back here and apologize, or not, either way this and the previous "arguments" are already rebuttaled, while in the meantime the whole "conversation" we are having only continues to expose you and your, well, way of thinking.

- Dev time. Thats one of the things and have very solid foundations, and you did well mentioning but you realise that it has nothing to do with the bolded question right? Please tell me you do, cause a lot are based on it. Anyway, ive talked about that part on the opening post as well as on other following ones. Some of the suggestions require 1hour of work, others 1month, its the way of the suggestions though, we try to come up with different and uniques ones others are easy to implement others not, its up to the devs to decide though.

Now that your post is made to look like a joke. Ill ask again, are you sure you are against the notion of this thread and what we are asking? Cause from were i stand you posted a shiton of crap trying to justify why you are fighting what we try to do here, while in practice you dont even know. Its more like something totally personal and totally irrational compared to the objectivity of the OP that drives you to say foolish things like those you did. Sorry man, i do not find joy analyzing and crushing petty "argument" but thats the only way people like you might ever stop posting bullshit.

But i dont have a problem with you (though if you continue posting like a bitter child with unfinished thoughts, that will gradually change), so ill present you with another opportunity to show your colours, agenda and the greatness of your personality.

How any addition/change/rework in the ascencion method - while keeping it as an option also in the labyrinth - will have any negative effect in anyone's gameplay/personal experience? Clear of ambiguities and holes that your kind seems to like so much to abuse. Simple and true. Take your time, i understand that completely crushing your non-arguments which you put time to think/post would be kinda of infuriating, but i suggest you calm down and think before making your next post.

Looking forward to hearing from you man. Regards.

P.S. Thx the rest for pointing out the obvious, i thought i was alone seeing how hypocritical and/ro irrelevant his post was.

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Prebornfetus wrote:

Consistency/Hand Holding - You say you need to be tested to earn ascendancy. You are right here but the builds that ascendancy doesnt work for like say evasion where one wrong step and ur dead buy their way through it because they literally cant do it.

This is just wrong.
This shows how much knowledge you lack about the labyrinth ( understandable if you never run it because you do not like it, but then please do not throw things like this ).
Apart from floor spikes, evasion basically the same as armour ( even better since dodging darts does no slow you I think, blocking them slows you thi ).
It mattesr about Izaro basically and even though I have not specifically tested it ( my main char atm has more evasion than armor ), I'm positive it's easier to beat him as evasion based.
And that is only the boss, a boss can be tuned, people here seem to just be complaining about the traps.

If you know how to build ( and I'm not talking meta, ANY player knowing the game well enough can just adapt to the lab, like it is possible to adapt to the other bosses of the games - not talking about Atziri here, don't really know - ).


If the outcry here proves one thing, it's that GGG has let its players get used to hand holding and platter way too much.
GGG cannot please everyone, I hope they keep returning to the original hardcore-like aspect they were originally aiming for, if they don't, well good for the other people that will be pleased, I will be in the part disapointed then.

Thanks for the actual discussion, I'm surprised, in a good way.


EDIT : I'll edit my post for the new answer from regulator later, did not refresh the page.
EDIT2 : there it goes :

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Regulator wrote:

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I'm sorry ? "shred"ing anything ?
WOW, you have really high hopes man, you're not shredding anything, you're displaying your lack of knowledge / understanding there :

- You seem frustrated that traps ignore some equipment's element, you cannot just facetank the game anymore ?? too bad, deal with it.
This is consistent, it shows you that you have to be on your toes, that's how wraeclast used to be before all that power creep and easy-getting item falling from the sky.
Keep hiding behind "Ohhh look at that ! WK !! it's so baad" if you want, it's easier than actually trying to think for a second, I know don't worry.

- Yes they do mess with the lore to an extent. You don't know exactly what lore GGG wants to give you, you don't know if they want to just change the lore they worked on for couple of people that cannot adapt and keep QQing over and over.

- Given the current meta and how easy it is to acquire items and offscreen kill monsters and faceroll maps in no time, wanting just standard monster bashing is going to be hand holding compared to the traps, yes.
Have a problem with that ? Too bad, again.

- Of course dev time has anything to do with the bolded part, if time is being spend on changing the lab for you guys, that means less improvment on the other hand, less improvment is an obvious negative effect, jeez ...

If something was a joke there, it was not my post, I will let you meditate on what it was, not that I think that it will be useful, but it's not really my problem so w/e.
And yes, I did read the OP ( a while ago ).

Funny part, bonus time :

Keep QQing over and over - calls other "bitter child"
good job.

For your new question, this will be really easy, the answer will basically be the same.
The reward/satisfaction feeling for completing something that you can do by facerolling the content as an option, will not be the same at all.
That is to say using only monster decimating type of gameplay, that most lab haters have mentioned, basically.
Other good ways to ascend could be implement, it's a possibility of course, some could be very nice, but then -> dev time consuming ( I would personally rather have "other" game improvment instead )

FIght, fight, fight!

One sec let me fetch some pop corn.
The forums are truly better than the game atm. Thanks labyrinth.