SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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ShaUrley wrote:

I'm not doing GGG any good clogging up their game servers or continuing to waste my breath posting negative feedback on their forums

do you play groups? do you have ingame friends? do you trade? if so - then you are a 'protein trade bot' for other players. it is cheaper to have you here than to code a meaningful AI (including social interaction, trading etc)

this is what makes F2P good - they substitute development costs (that can be SUBSTANTIAL) with masses of humans. both sides are happy - humans get a free game and at the same time do unpaid job that bots/AI normally do for the benefit of other players. there are very few F2P SINGLE-player games for a reason. users are 'the content' at the same time.


so if that makes you happy - continue to think that you are leeching from GGG. but in fact you are giving them a good, unpaid service

same applies to your posting - most posts end up unread (skipped, skimmed, glanced over, easily forgotten) but they create a buzz, a critical mass of activity

if you want to know how bad a forum looks like without said bzz - go check pvp forum

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sidtherat wrote:

same applies to your posting - most posts end up unread (skipped, skimmed, glanced over, easily forgotten) but they create a buzz, a critical mass of activity

Well, this could be a first: appreciation from a lab-supporter (I think) for all of the buzz created by a critical mass of anti-lab bitching. ;)

Not that it's relevant, but I actually prefer to play solo/self-found/HC and don't trade at all (though I did trade a couple of fusings one time for a couple of alchs with someone in town who needed the fusings). It was a bit sad, though, to use the one exalt I've found in PHC on a Maraketh bow and get +10% light radius/+35 accuracy...

agree 100%

i dont know if anyone mention this yet but some builds are vaal SKILL builds..how you get charges for boss when it delete charges?

some build are power charge builds which comprise 75% of dps not coc just straight up duration boosted... how get chrage one on one with ezrio?

then you have fact some builds just own lab and others dont. mainly ES/GRs are complete shit while 1000 lps builds can close eyes in lab

LAB destroys diversity which ascendancy did so well to give

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Fruz wrote:

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Pyrokar wrote:

You misunderstood. What i am saying is: Why is it bad design to give asc points for something trivial? We already get skill points for doing trivial things like pushing a button or releasing a ghost. So it's bad design because you say so? Well then whole game is badly designed.

And yes the lab is trivial too. The only challenge is in trying to keep your vomit inside.

Stop with the BS a second, none of the people bitching about lab find it trivial, otherwise they would not come and waste time bitching about it here.
And yeah, you can pretend that you find it trivial, it's just absolutely not credible.

You really don't know what you are talking about. You are a fool if you really think that you know better than me why I don't like the Labyrinth. Sorry I really don't think that you're a fool. It is far more likely in my mind that you are just trolling if you stick to this fantasy that you know better than me why I don't like the Labyrinth. Labyrinth is not hard. Izaro is hard if you're not way over leveled but Izaro is fun and not the problem. The problem is that the rest of the labyrinth is horribly boring tedious and not fun. The gameplay is horrible crap.

BTW, you're here bitching. Do I get to declare what is really motivating your bitching? No, because I'm neither a fool nor a troll.

haha yeah he's trolling I kill izaro in 2 seconds but damn sure i dont go in there but to ascend. 4x max and its dreadful.

id literally never step foot in there if not for ascend and most my build can do uber atziri ...not hard at all just tedium

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Aim_Deep wrote:

i dont know if anyone mention this yet but some builds are vaal SKILL builds..how you get charges for boss when it delete charges?

some build are power charge builds which comprise 75% of dps not coc just straight up duration boosted... how get chrage one on one with ezrio?

then you have fact some builds just own lab and others dont. mainly ES/GRs are complete shit while 1000 lps builds can close eyes in lab

LAB destroys diversity which ascendancy did so well to give

That's more of a valid concern, regarding Izaro.
Now, even vaal builds have some skills to fill the gem at least once. Does GGG wants vaal skill to be main skills for some builds ? maybe, maybe not.

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Turtledove wrote:

You really don't know what you are talking about. You are a fool if you really think that you know better than me why I don't like the Labyrinth

You did not understand my point I guess.
I just called the bitching hypocrisy ( at least the one including the "It's so easy I'm so gud at it but it sucks" ), basically.
Or lies.
w/e

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Aim_Deep wrote:

haha yeah he's trolling I kill izaro in 2 seconds but damn sure i dont go in there but to ascend. 4x max and its dreadful.

Not about Izaro

double

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Fruz wrote:

You did not understand my point I guess.
I just called the bitching hypocrisy ( at least the one including the "It's so easy I'm so gud at it but it sucks" ), basically.
Or lies.
w/e

You dare question my Pro Mario Player skills?


And you know what the funny part is? I didn't do all these trials to unlock the uber lab since my char doesn't gain anything from last 2 points, but because i wanted to kill the blue monster packs inbetween traps since i was running 77+ maps. That's how trivial they are to me.

No lies. Now stop attacking my credibility with personal attacks since i am a Pro Mario Player and i will crush your puny attempts each and every time.

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Pyrokar wrote:

You dare question my Pro Mario Player skills?

As you might have read like ... right before, no : I don't care about Mario.
And I got my confirmation from earlier then, you're just trolling.

I got some too, and I'm not good in those new trials.
It's more pressure in HC though I guess.

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goetzjam wrote:

You think it isn't that big of a deal for GGG to add AC points to malachai, but the issue is it really is, from a design perspective no act bosses at all give any rewards, they simply allow you to progress into the next act or difficulty. Breaking that setup just to appease to the people that dislike the lab not only removes the purpose of challenge for reward and going out of your way to get said reward, but it would encourage player feedback to continue to demand that people get additional power essentially for "free" which the malachai rewards are.

Kinda wrong, sorry. You said it removes challenge for reward, but why then does nearly no one malachai merciless? Because he IS challenging and player try to avoid him. Giving him a purpose (other then the prophecy challange) would be a good thing. I also think that it still doesnt make much sense that endbosses dont give any rewards. All the exiles ask for your help to save the land and when you overcome the biggest challenge, you only get a "thank you"? So rewards would make sense from a design perspective in my opinion.

And I dont think we have to discuss that lab may be challenging, but not in a way that many players like. No one said it can't be challanging to get AC points, but people just hate the lab mechanics itself (traps, you need to spent 45 minutes, can't tp in/out, desync/disconnect even more deadly and annoying in lab).

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goetzjam wrote:

Not only that it doesn't fit the whole lab scheme together, what about the last 2 points of the 8? Ideas like this were mentioned before the last 2 points were revealed, they've been left in the same empty state as stated, which is why the whole massively list all of the ideas is a terrible idea, it doesn't actually accomplish anything but give GGG a list of mediocre at best ideas to solve an issue they have with the game.

My suggestion could perfectly apply to normal lab and uber lab: alternative route, some scattared traps, but main focus is on clearing rooms full of mobs. Last Izaro Room will then be filled with many (respawning) monsters instead of traps. This would be much more in line with the classic poe gameplay and still would be challanging. And I think there could be many other (easier) solutions for uber lab. Make it a unique map with some low ele/phys reflec, reduced life reg etc. and a hard (but not one-shotting) izaro boss. Challenging, but also in line with classic poe play.

And sometimes developers have to place their priorities right: Do we want to have content that is not liked by many, but is perfectly in line with the whole theme or do we want to have content that is liked by most players and is not perfectly in line with the theme. I bet not even 1% of the players really care about the lore in PoE. People play it for the character customization and the typical aRPG hack'n slay gameplay. And AC points are very important for that. Forcing the players to play content with the trap mechanics was just a bad decission to begin with and GGG should've known that. So I think it's their responsibility to fix it. If you try an experiment, you always have to face the risk of failure and try to set things right then.

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goetzjam wrote:

The glove\boot enchantments for merc are alright, but only the endgame lab enchantments are even relevant now, nothing else, at least in SC temp league even matters. So by giving points for killing malachai, you know something you already have to do in 2\3 difficulties its 100% giving them away for free and removing the purpose of having players do new content, which they later will almost certainly bitch about the lack of content.

And why the hell don't we talk about ways to make the enchantments (especially freom the difficulty labs) more worthwhile? The thing is: AC points can only be gained once. So most people play the lab once and ignore it after that. But GGG's goal should be to add optional content (like Uniques, Enchantments etc.) into the lab that motivates players to do the lab over and over again WITH THE SAME CHARACTER. Like the people who farm Atziri over and over again, because she drops good uniques. The good thing about Atziri is, you can do her, but you dont need to. Uniques can be bought from other players who manage to kill Atziri. So this content is PERFECTLY optional. The lab however isn't. You need to go through the lab in order to get the AC points. And that's a bad decission from GGG.

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goetzjam wrote:

GGG doesn't make changes for the "majority" or "vocal players" they make changes based on what they view as acceptable. Don't think for a second that the shitty idea of just adding it to malachai fixes shit, it doesn't and it isn't a good change for the game (it won't happen anyway, if they so choose to go down that route, all future support will be lost from me)

What a tryhard... Like I said, people dont even do merciless malachai, because he has no purpose. So I dont think it would be wrong to move AC points out of lab. And the thing is: GGG will probably make more profit and make more people happy when they make the AC points available through classic ways (fightings mobs, not fiddling around with shitty traps). So if there are a handful of tryhards who would "stop their support" just because the game got changed in a way that is more in line with the classic poe gameplay, then so be it. I dont think that this has something to do with casualizing the game, since no ones asking for an easy way. People are just asking for a more classic way.

For example: Most people today buy malachai rush. Why doesn't GGG change the bosses so that you have to be present in the room? Most people only faceroll through the content because they buy rushes and can wait in front of the boss room. I think that would be a good change. It would make the game more challanging and you can't avoid malachai boss fight if you want to get the AC points (especially in merciless).