SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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morbo wrote:

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gibbousmoon wrote:

I don't think even a single person in this thread has said that. Please read the following wikipedia entry two or three times, or as many times as it takes to understand it, whichever is less (because I am kind):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man?

Maybe you havent read the OP -_-

A bunch of those suggestions involve giving Asc points for doing stuff you'd be already doing (kill Mala, level to certain level) or have nothing to do with Ascendancy expansion (buy them from <whatever>, etc).

I'm pretty sure GGG will not invalidate a whole expansion and the concept behind it.

Fair enough, if you consider leveling to a certain point or killing Malachai (especially in Merciless) to be equivalent to doing nothing (and thus getting the points for free).

I do not.

In any case, most of the discussion in this thread has not surrounded those suggestions. You came in here just to debunk the fringe ideas? Because you were afraid they might become popular?

Newsflash: Most of the people here want to either replace the Labyrinth with an equally significant Ascension method, or to fix the labryinth so that it sucks less. I'm in the latter camp, personally.

If you want to make a real contribution to this thread, I suggest you propose some ideas for making the Labyrinth less objectionable (see my list of the most common objections for reference).

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gibbousmoon wrote:

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Shovelcut wrote:

Such a horrible comparison. The point being that if you practice running the laby you'll become more efficient in dealing with the challenge and possibly lessening the time involved and your discomfort in the area.

Fair enough, but this only serves to highlight the nature of the labyrinth as content that is designed to be skipped as much as possible.

Isn't that common knowledge though? I mean, they teased a 'leaderboard' for it (and special rewards for being the fastest of the day) when the idea was first introduced to the community.

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morbo wrote:

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gibbousmoon wrote:

Fair enough, but this only serves to highlight the nature of the labyrinth as content that is designed to be skipped as much as possible.

So is the quest content, for some of us. ~10 - 15 hrs of slogging through 3X the same questline for each char, when you'd just want to play maps.

Maps are no less repetitive than playing through the game itself, so if "slogging through" content is a criticism of that content, then it really points to the need to take a break from the entire game, imo.

Anyhow, this is actually one of PoE's strengths, compared to other ARPGs.

The most valuable currency is available in all areas, even the Normal Strand.

Do you skip killing as many monsters as possible while going through the game itself? Do you use quicksilver flasks to get through all the areas without killing any monsters, when possible? Do you make a beeline for the exit, and consider monsters nothing more than obstacles in your way?

I don't.

Except while I'm in the lab.

Do you see the difference? Or would you rather not see the difference?

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Shovelcut wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

It's more like, I don't like eating okra. Trying to tell me I have to practice eating okra will make me like it doesn't really make sense.

Such a horrible comparison. The point being that if you practice running the laby you'll become more efficient in dealing with the challenge and possibly lessening the time involved and your discomfort in the area.

I did that in hardcore which made me increase my hatred for the lab the more i played it. So it went the opposite way for me. Playing the lab a lot made me realise that this isn't the game i want to play, nor make any other new characters in hardcore and made me slowly lose interest in PoE. I used to create 5-8 characters per league. After the labyrinth got implemented i did two and after the uber lab one.

This is me while doing uber lab trials in hardcore.

Every single suggestion in the OP keeps the ascendancy system in the labyrinth too, not a single one invalidates a whole a expansion, but EVERY SINGLE ONE offers a solution to different objections against the labyrinth. What white knights do here is just bashing on something they dont have the mental requirements to comprehend.

How many more pages do you need to understand that there is no point in suggesting : "keep doing it/practicing and you will like it?" We play the game for fun, if we find something enganging and interesting we will keep doing it, if we dont we simply wont. Its just a matter of preferance. We started playing PoE for totally different things than the lab offers, and thats too simple for you not to understand. [Removed by Support]

And since the labyrinth remains the same with every single suggestion made, why do you even care actually if there is an alternative or more options? Why nobody of you ignorant and prejudiced white knights havent answered yet one simple question?

How any addition/change/rework in the ascencion method - while keeping it as an option also in the labyrinth - will have any negative effect in anyone's gameplay/personal experience?

Nobody will force you to choose the alternative option, but we are ALL forced to follow that one shitty way, so why are you so passionately trying to deny us having fun with the only thing worthy in the labyrinth for many of us? You can still have your own way of fun while we choose a different one. Please for fuck's shake answer the question in bold in a way that will make us see an actual valid point and say : fuck we really missed that one, cause after 400+ total pages of anti-lab comments and white knights failed attempts to defend GGG failed experiement i still havent seen one (and no mr.x, y and z you havent answered this, like never, and if you think you did then just copy it again and watch how it has no relevance to the question asked.)

We actually have made progression and reached a good point with so many constructive suggestions and feedback and then some arsehole comes here and simply states : " i have no argument or reason to disaggree with anything suggested here but i will do it because ....hmmm... you suck and you should get better and .. and... GGG rocks.. and hmmm... so many rewards ... and.. hmmm ... i was instructed by my order to do so and... hmm.. i like cats and hmmm.. what else? what else? oh i like spamming in threads... hmm i like insulting people... and hmm i cant understand the issue so im 100% there is no issuse... i like the lab so should you.... hmm i prefer blue colour, and hmmm... oh yes lab is optional and totally not needed.... hmm you dont deserve the points.... did i mentioned i much i love GGG's every decision? "

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gibbousmoon wrote:

Do you skip killing as many monsters as possible while going through the game itself? Do you use quicksilver flasks to get through all the areas without killing any monsters, when possible? Do you make a beeline for the exit, and consider monsters nothing more than obstacles in your way?

Yes. I do that all the way to maps, where you grind content with quantity bonus. Equip 2 QS and skip everything, except blue packs.

Leveling through the same fetch quests 3x, is boring, because on your second, third, etc char in league all you wanna do is to equip that 60+ lvl req gear you've found. Its "slogging through" yea.

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About solutions to Lab: I dont agree with any of those "common objections" in the OP. The lab is fine as is, that's why the best compromise I've seen so far, is to make traps destructible, but a slow process. People who hate traps should be able to trade time for safety. Everyone concerned with effectivness, would still need to run the Lab as originally intended by designers.

But your problem is that not everyone agrees what is wrong with the Lab. Some say traps, some say Izaro, some say backtracking, some say it's too long, some are bothered by restart on death... etc. It will be imposible to please all of you, short by reverting a whole expansion.

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morbo wrote:

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gibbousmoon wrote:

Do you skip killing as many monsters as possible while going through the game itself? Do you use quicksilver flasks to get through all the areas without killing any monsters, when possible? Do you make a beeline for the exit, and consider monsters nothing more than obstacles in your way?

Yes. I do that all the way to maps, where you grind content with quantity bonus. Equip 2 QS and skip everything, except blue packs.

Leveling through the same fetch quests 3x, is boring, because on your second, third, etc char in league all you wanna do is to equip that 60+ lvl req gear you've found. Its "slogging through" yea.

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About solutions to Lab: I dont agree with any of those "common objections" in the OP. The lab is fine as is, that's why the best compromise I've seen so far, is to make traps destructible, but a slow process. People who hate traps should be able to trade time for safety. Everyone concerned with effectivness, would still need to run the Lab as originally intended by designers.

But your problem is that not everyone agrees what is wrong with the Lab. Some say traps, some say Izaro, some say backtracking, some say it's too long, some are bothered by restart on death... etc. It will be imposible to please all of you, short by reverting a whole expansion.

I am pretty sure what everyone cares about are the Ascendancy points, so as long as they were removed from the lab or were obtainable in another way, we could give a flying fart about what that way would be.

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Regulator wrote:

[Removed by Support]

Yeah...

Fuck your bolded question. As soon as someone can answer it you'll just change it again and then say it hasn't been anwered.

This is what it used to be:

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Regulator wrote:

If the ascendancy points where decoupled from the labyrinth, what would that mean to you? How would that affect your own personal way of playing?

Keep on throwing names and derogatory terms around though, at least it's adding some more entertainment value to this thread. ;)

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Shovelcut wrote:

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Regulator wrote:

[Removed by Support]

Yeah...

Fuck your bolded question. As soon as someone can answer it you'll just change it again and then say it hasn't been anwered.

This is what it used to be:

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Regulator wrote:

If the ascendancy points where decoupled from the labyrinth, what would that mean to you? How would that affect your own personal way of playing?

Keep on throwing names and derogatory terms around though, at least it's adding some more entertainment value to this thread. ;)

The bold question im asking is exactly the same with the one you quoted just refined and clear of any ambiguities white knights thrive on using. Its exactly the same question, and still after all that time nobody has even tried to answer it with solid arguments. Why is that? is it that hard? or are all of you afraid that when answering you simply see the selfish, arrogant and malevolent nature of your comments and past posts? Or by answering honestly you will instantly invalidate and contradict every past comment you made?

The thing is if you consider yourself a white knight or not, if not then prove it by actually making sense while posting something relevant to the purpose of the thread, or critisize the suggestions and the purpose with solid and valid arguments, cause until know there are 7-8 individuals that are by definition white knights posting turd-arguments and all they do is posting offtopic nonsense, bashing on people and answering imaginary issues that do not exist.

For example see morbo's latest responses he still thinks we want ascendancy points for free or have problems with difficulty etc. And he responded with the exactly same white knight answers as you have in the past, or goetjzam, or sidtherat or perq or dickhole_macghee or dos_fafner. And once again ill describe what white knight is supposed to mean in games : the person who will without reason (rationality) defend something just because his feelings dictate so. Its not derogatory on its own unless you perceive as such (personally i find it pathetic for example, others might be proud of it cause it shows they are passionate). Since you took the time to find that quote you might have enough free time to actually see and compare some of the posts of the people mentioned, its like they had the same author or something, the similarities are beyond the level of natural, its as if they met and said that they will follow that same way of answering.

You say my comment is derogatory, how is possible to say the truth then, post things as they are? Is the earth flat? No, if i say so im ignorant and stupid. The sun rises from the east, saying otherwise is a lie. I can accept that my comment is in the extreme side, but what if i just said : "White knights due to their passionate nature and lack of rationality because they are fanatics cannot or refuse to understand the points made throughout the thread, and because they lack any solid argument on their side their posting resembles more littering and polluting, because they post things that have nothing to do with the issues that are being discussed. And just like a shit is the waste product of a person's digestive system aka the parts of the food that were not useful for his body, the same analogy applies to their comments, they are not needed here cause they are not useful to the discussion and the suggestions." I just described the summary of white knights' comments with as much honesty and veracity i could based on their actual usefulness and assistance to the whole thread. Saying anything else than that, would be a lie. It just that my previous comment was much more raw using words in a much more vulgar way, making the whole sentence seem insulting while it was actually just a verity of their nature using extreme satyrical analogies.

So ill ask it again : How any addition/change/rework in the ascencion method - while keeping it as an option also in the labyrinth - will have any negative effect in anyone's gameplay/personal experience? (you can also compare it side by side with the one you quoted and see how similar the question is but much more refined and free of ambiguities, since i was tired of white knights abusing ambiguities and finding stupid irrelavant things to commend at, for example in the question you unburied the few answers i remember all were about the decoupling part while every suggestion in the OP clearly states that the lab also remains as it is). Answer that question only, its all ask from people that are against the suggestions made here, can you gentlemen be useful for once? (see i asked nicely)

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morbo wrote:

Leveling through the same fetch quests 3x, is boring, because on your second, third, etc char in league all you wanna do is to equip that 60+ lvl req gear you've found. Its "slogging through" yea.

Well then, you obviously need to L2P.

If you keep doing it, you will get better at it, I promise. And then you can enjoy it!

git gud.